whats of interest to people

[electric.mike]

has anyone else noticed how the main interest of people visiting this forum is the range of electric bikes, ie the top speed thread has had`475 views but the range thread has had 3360 views.
i must admit range is of far more interest to me than speed.
mike

 

[nigel]

Nigel

Hi electric mike
your results dont surprise me i suppose the ideal of electric bikes would be for people who have lost some fitness or limb mobilty and range would be more important then speed it is a case of gentle exercise rather then none at all.
But for me i travel 16 miles each way to work and back and the journey takes about 1hour and 20 mins distance is not the problem but i would like to get to work a bit quicker hence speed is more important to me iam 50 yrs old 5ft 6ins 14 stone tubbyish NIGEL

 

[flecc]

I'm always fascinated by peoples request for range, and in particular the amounts they speak of, 60 miles, even 100 miles sometimes. After all, these are legally 15 mph bikes and it's common for them to average about 12 mph on mixed terrain. Would they really like to be continuously in the saddle for 5 to 8 hours?

I very much doubt it. Two hours is quite enough for most average riders, so that equates to about 24 miles. A number of today's bikes can do that and more anyway, so in real world terms not much more progress here seems particularly necessary. For the very few who might want more, maybe some manufacturers could offer a second battery mounting feature with switch as an optional extra.

You can see the connection with speed that Nigel mentions, the inference being that more range can really only be of use with more speed, which we aren't going to get anyway, that's for sure.
.

 

[Django]

Hi Flecc,

I don't entirely agree although I do take your point. I certainly wouldn't like to sit in a saddle for five hours continuously, but take last Sunday as an example. I had a lunch invitation at a pub 23 miles from where I live, the weather was magnificent and I would have loved the opportunity to cycle out there. Two hours there, two hours in the pub, two hours back, lazy day, couple of pints, good food, good company and a seat in the sun. That is really pushing the Torq one way never mind both, so I took the motorbike instead - oh the hardships I endure .

The two battery solution is a good one but financially and aesthetically (simplicity, not looks) expensive. I could have plugged the battery in behind the bar, but after a four hour wait the chances of me being in a fit state to ride home would have been zero .

Then there is deterioration of the battery to consider, which in a year or so will make even one way out of range.

For me, a genuine fifty miles (the distance to my parents' home!) would be a major selling point when I come to replace my present battery.

Cheers,

Django

 

[coops]

Nice thread title Mike

Maybe responses need not be restricted to interest in "range/speed" but could perhaps be a gauge of whats of interest to people generally re ebikes?

You may be right that range is most often considered to be more important than speed, but (I hope you don't mind me pointing this out!) you may be unaware that the viewings of the two threads you mention cannot be compared on an equal basis because the "range" one is nearly 6 months (~ 25 weeks) old but the "speed" one is only 3 weeks old! hence the "range" one has been open for over 8 times as long, which may account for most or all of the difference of ~7 times the viewing numbers!

While I tend to agree with Flecc re the realistic limited "one-off" trip range of a 15mph max motor bike, in an ideal world I'd like to be able to travel at 20mph+ for say up to 2hrs = a 40+ mile range, and still have enough power for the return trip! but given thats not likely to happen at all easily anytime soon (unless we get nuclear powered bikes or something! ) I just tend now to use speed if I need it or don't need longer range before recharging, or go longer range at lower speed/more pedalling effort if I'm relaxed or have more time.

I've found that those curious about the bike tend to ask first about its top speed, and I think this may be most people's first interest, but once the reality of the more speed=less range trade-off hits home, & given that the maximum motor assisted range before "refuelling" is rather limited compared to other means of transport anyway (unless one uses the motor very sparingly), then one tends to think more economically & so balance the useful albeit limited speed & range .

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

Good points Django. I don't think the majority need much more than a small improvement though, lighter weights being of at least as much interest for many. Ideally the market could split apart more now, with a choice of moderate range lightweight bikes for the majority and some long range models.

My main point was that many don't think through what using a long range entails, and even your two hours each way would be beyond the pain thresholds of many posteriors, whether or not numbed with alchohol.
.

 

[coops]

As an afterthought:

Other than someone designing a power source for a bike which has much more energy stored for the same/less weight thus increasing the ranges & /or speeds possible, while still being non-polluting, the most interesting development I can conceive of would be a means to refuel/recharge more quickly & easily.

Lets face it, unless your transport derives its own power e.g. solar, then all vehicles must refuel. What makes it less convenient for us is that we need a mains outlet & several hours to fully recharge. It may not be possible, but if for instance a very rapid chargeable power-cell were to be developed, and roadside unmanned "charge points" set up such that you could plug in & recharge almost instantly & pay by a card or somesuch, & one could even carry a small reserve of "fuel" to be used as a power source to be converted to electricity in an emergency (if one was disinclined to pedal to next outlet! ), then longer distance travel (assuming the 15mph limit were lifted or electric bikes exceeding 15mph recategorised somehow) would be much facilitated.

To me that would be a major step forward for bike travel.

 

[nigel]

Nigel

what really
bugs me with 15mph speed limit is as another forum member said the limit in this country for cars is 70mph but most cars will do over a 100mph+why a stupid 15mph for electric bikes it still is to slow. I think one day you will be able to buy a more powerfull bike 30mph+ but it will mean bike insurance and cycle helmets knee pads and so NIGEL

 

[flecc]

I think one day you will be able to buy a more powerfull bike 30mph+ but it will mean bike insurance and cycle helmets knee pads and so NIGEL

It's nice to dream Nigel, but it certainly will never happen in our lifetimes. As far as the politicians are concerned, mopeds are for what you want, and unlicenced users will forever be limited to what's perceived as cycling speed. This used to be 12 mph for electric bikes, and the increase to 15 mph is probably as much as we'll ever legally have in Britain.

So what do I want if not more range? Well for me it's better consistent hill climbing at reasonable speeds. The Quando is the only one of my three bikes that does that for me. The Twist will climb just about anything, albeit slowly, and that's the problem. In an area where some climbs can extend to one and a half miles or more, 6 to 7 mph can become rather tedious. Also, the added effort required from me that is reasonable at the start of such a hill can get much tougher ten minutes later when the hill is still continuing.

At least with the Quando I have an option on hills less than 14% (1 in 7), climb at speeds of 10/11 mph or so with me assisting, making the hill much shorter, or stop pedalling at any time for a rest and let the Quando carry on by itself at around 7/8 mph.

I'd like to see all e-bikes able to do that.

 

[electric.mike]

the beauty of forums is the chance for people to learn, not just the technical aspects but all the other aspects, when i first joined i could not see the need for more speed i still don't need or want it, but can now understand the needs of the commuter better, although i am a ardent supporter of the ebike i don't think i would have the inner grit to ebike 15miles to work on bad roads and in foul weather and then another 15miles home possibly both trips in the dark, my hat comes of to those that do
in fact this may come as a surprise but if ever a petition is started to raise the limit i would sign it, and the change of heart is purely from reading posts on this forum.
mike

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

Range or Speed? perhaps both

When I first began to entertain the possibility that an Electric Bike would 'do it for me' I accepted that there was a legal limit of 15 mph (and naively thought that was all an e-bike could do, not realizing that there was more 'under the bonnet').
So range was my first criterium. There was so much variation with various manufacturers claims. Having sorted out the sheep from the goats and realized that for all practical purposes (in one battery) with care, there was 25 miles average, two batteries would do it, even at the expense of body parts. Then came the surprise that batteries weren't like that - they did not promise 500 or perhaps even 1000 cycle recharges. They could die after 100 miles. And, if a winter of little use intervened, you were out of warranty
So instead of planning my next sortie into the wide blue yonder/great outdoors, like a fortnight's gastronomic tour of our cross channel neighbour, I am still contemplating whether or not it would be practical, (leave my age out of this). and summer is already becoming a lost dream.
Reliability would be my first consideration, then range and, lastly but not least, speed.
I can manage 4 hours in the saddle (two before and two after lunch - no alcohol, please, we are law-abiding).
Peter

 

[Ian]

It's interesting to hear other peoples wishes and expectations. for me it has to be range over speed any day. Most of my cycling is purely for pleasure, and one of the reasons for going electric was to go further than is possible with my legs alone. With the recent good weather the bike(Ezee Torq) has seen a lot of use, exceeding 30 miles on some days, this is approaching the maximum that even my miserly use of the throttle can get out of a single charge, and yet I'm looking forward to going further in the summer holidays.. with the help of a second battery.

I have a friend, a very keen cyclist now in his late fifties who's regular Sunday morning ride is 80 miles in the peak district, I know I'll never attain the kind of fitness level to make anything like that possible with pedal power alone but I'd love that kind of range on an electric assist.. but at 15 mph? maybe speed does become more important on longer runs!

I often take my Garmin GPS on rides which records all kinds of interesting statistics. Typically my average speed is about 11 mph with a max of about 28 mph. Now that the post winter saddle soreness is wearing off I think I could manage 45-50 miles at an 11 mph average with lots of stops, which for me is what it's all about.

Ian.

 

[Mike Robinson]

unlicensed users will forever be limited to what's perceived as cycling speed. This used to be 12 mph for electric bikes, and the increase to 15 mph is probably as much as we'll ever legally have in Britain.

15mph is still rather slow even for me when I'm just cycling on level ground without the motor and that's with a 28kg bike. I'm sure on a modern light weight bike I'd be cruising at over 20mph. I would be a bit sweaty at the end of a run though.

I can manage 4 hours in the saddle (two before and two after lunch - no alcohol, please, we are law-abiding)

Genuine question - Is it illegal to ride a bike after a pint or two?

instance a very rapid chargeable power-cell were to be developed

I guess it would help if the (disconnected) battery could contained a charger so it could be taken into the pub and recharged over lunch.


I'd just like a bike I could easily use as a personal green commute to central London 8 mile away. If it had the capability to do this under it's own steam and at 20mph then I'd be in 7th heaven.

Mike

 

[Django]

Genuine question - Is it illegal to ride a bike after a pint or two?

DISCLAIMER: There is no necessary connection between legality and morality.

On a 'normal' bicycle in the UK you are fine, so long as you are not incapable of operating it. In real terms, that means that for most people even three or four pints is unlikely to be a (legal) problem per se so long as you are riding reasonably sensibly. You are not required to submit to a breath or blood test and you cannot have your license endorsed, but an officer could offer alternative evidence of intoxication to the court if he/she felt it appropriate - e.g. weaving across the road and slurring speech.

I suspect that the same applies to electric bicycles but it is a very grey area and probably needs a test case or two to clarify the situation . The phrase 'mechanically propelled' in the 1998 Road Traffic Act could be deemed to apply to an electric bicycle, whereas (in law) it does not apply to human powered bicycles.

If others can throw further or better light on this, I would be interested.

Django

 

[Ian]

DISCLAIMER: There is no necessary connection between legality and morality.

The phrase 'mechanically propelled' in the 1998 Road Traffic Act could be deemed to apply to an electric bicycle, whereas (in law) it does not apply to human powered bicycles.

If others can throw further or better light on this, I would be interested.

Django

The Department of Transport website clearly states that an electric bicycle that conforms to the much discussed requirements of power, speed etc. is not a motor vehicle within the meaning of the road traffic act.
Otherwise I understand things are as Django says.

Last Friday night I saw several people riding bicycles around midnight, hardly any with lights and clearly some were not in proper control, yet the only ones the police were showing interest in were hooded youngsters with perhaps more sinister intentions than just getting home.

While I sometimes have a pint or two at lunchtime I'm far more concerned about falling in the canal than being pulled by plod as part of my usual route is along a towpath (And yes, I do have a permit).

Ian.

 

[Ian]

I'd just like a bike I could easily use as a personal green commute to central London 8 mile away. If it had the capability to do this under it's own steam and at 20mph then I'd be in 7th heaven.

Mike

Mike,

a de-restricted Torq will do exactly that. It would probably just about manage the return journey on a single charge, but charging after each single 8 mile leg would be a lot kinder on the battery and remove all uncertainty... even at full throttle 20+ mph all the way.

Ian

 

[flecc]

15mph is still rather slow even for me when I'm just cycling on level ground without the motor and that's with a 28kg bike. I'm sure on a modern light weight bike I'd be cruising at over 20mph. I would be a bit sweaty at the end of a run though.
Mike

I agree Mike, and the same goes for me, finding 15 mph slow. But what happens in our real world and politicians perception of it is rather different, hence my saying cyclists "perceived" speed.

Though Switzerland outside the EU has a 20 limit class and Germany has partially adopted something similar, Germany has always been out of step on limits as witness their unlimited autobahns. However, that's changing even there, and the trend with speed law is ever downwards now. Just look at the trend:

The 70 limit was introduced as a fuel saving measure after the 1970s Arab oil crisis, but has been stubbornly retained on road safety grounds ever since. We never had a national speed limit, but a 60 mph one crept in unannounced. The 50 limit is a dying breed, scarcely longer used now. When a 60 limit road's limit is reduced, it's normally straight down to 40 now, and sometimes even down to 30 mph. In the South East of England the national speed limit is a joke now, whole routes being dominated by 40 limits, monitored by cameras everywhere. There's serious talk of 20 limits throughout all built up areas now, and 20 limit zones have been popping up faster than daffodils in Spring.

In an environment where licenced, tested and insured road users using MOT'd vehicles are being cut to 20 mph, the chances of untested, unlicenced and uninsured users riding untested vehicles enjoying the same anywhere legally is effectively nil. We were very lucky that the e-bike limit went from 12 to 15 mph before this restrictive modern trend took hold, since if it had still been 12 mph we may even have been stuck with that.

The best way is probably not to attract attention to ourselves by asking for higher limits, and just carry on quietly riding at the speeds we want to use. Given the relative silence and unobtrusive nature of most of today's e-motors, no-one will notice.
.