What is Primary Safety?

[flecc]

Good summary John. You may want to add personal mood and attitude. A good mood and unconditional humility are important for safety, cyclists often being as guilty of road rage as drivers can be.

No matter how much another's behaviour might tend to enrage, this must be avoided since heightened feelings affect ones concentration and behaviour.

I can have a good argument with anyone in here as you know, but on the roads I'm a lamb, always conceding to others, giving way to all public transport, helping drivers and pedestrians with a smile, letting anyone who appears to be in a hurry have right of way etc.

It's a great way of keeping out of trouble and helping others to do the same.
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[john]

I don't have too much trouble following the good advice on here and knowing what to do in different situations. What I do find difficult is concentrating 100% of the time.

In a car, I can drive, listen to the radio, have a conversation and drink a cup of coffee and still attend to all the driving tasks. On a bike there seems to be so much more to attend to, checking the mirror, watching for cars passing too close, checking the road surface, position in road, watching all the cars and planning what to do if they make the wrong move. A number of times I have had lapses of concentration and felt less safe because of it.

I like to be aware of what is behind me all of the time, but because cars can travel so much faster than me and accelerate quickly, I find I need to look in my mirror about every 2 seconds and this takes up a lot of my attention.

Perhaps if I used the mirror less, only for manoeuvres, I could hold my concentration better on the other tasks.

Any thoughts?

 

[flecc]

It's true that it can be difficult John, though I find the reverse where car driving is concerned, a greater likelyhood of loss of concentration than when on bike or motorbike. I don't use in car entertainment/radio of any kind for that reason, finding it sometimes distracting. An interesting point on distraction. Years ago the Road Research Laboratory was asked what single measure would reduce car accidents the most. Their considered answer was to put the driver in a separate compartment away from passengers, London taxicab fashion!

My urban bike mirror attention is almost continuous, certainly not as gapped as 2 seconds, probably reflecting the very high traffic density in my urban areas. When quiet in country lanes it's a bit less frequent, but still well attended to. My mirror looking is just an eye flicker though, no measurable loss of forward attention, and of course the mirror position is important for that. I would hate a mirror slung under the bars as some have, mine has to be above on moderately high bars.
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[frank9755]

And thats why I've never been hurt in well over half a century of driving, motor cycling and cycling, not because I'm an expert but because I'm always ready to learn more towards my inadequate knowledge and act upon it.

I leave others to think they're expert drivers, just as I leave them to have the accidents they think inevitable.
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Well put, Flecc. I think the moment any of us thinks we know it all is when we are in greatest danger.

To help me to learn a bit more I've just read a book on this called Cyclecraft, by John Franklin. I cycle a lot and feel I know a reasonable amount about how to ride safely, but I certainly learned more from reading this and would recommend it.

The book is a little bit old (1997) and some areas are out of date. In particular I think that cycle mirrors (which he is against) and lights have moved on in the last 11 years.

However the main points, on road positioning and how to tackle different types of junction and road configuration safely and effectively, were very useful. His key thrust is that above all the cyclist needs to be in the position where they are most likely to be seen by motorists. In most cases this means staying out of the gutter and being prepared to get into the traffic flow more, in particular in areas of potential danger such as near side roads, parked cars and traffic calming obstructions. He's not a fan of cycle lanes along the edges of busy roads, and in particular round the edges of roundabouts.

Not a book for a beginner, or a child, but useful for people who cycle a lot and want to learn more!

Frank

 

[The Maestro]

I think attention is my main problem. I can sometimes be so lost in thought while cycling that I can reach the end point and not actually recall any of the journey.

 

[frank9755]

I think attention is my main problem. I can sometimes be so lost in thought while cycling that I can reach the end point and not actually recall any of the journey.

On my daily commuting route I regularly get to a red light or a give way and 'wake up', realising I've no recollection of the previous few minutes of cycling. I don't think that means I've been inattentive when I've been riding, just that there's been nothing to stimulate me from a relaxed state. The other week it happened at the top of the biggest hill on my route!

 

[flecc]

I'm certainly prone to getting that inattention loss of part of a car journey, but fortunately that mainly affected my commuting days and isn't a problem now I'm retired and do variable trips. From that I'd think it's the sheer routine sameness of the journey that makes one vulnerable.

The odd thing about those lost parts of journeys though, was that there was never an emergency incident during that period. Perhaps that unknowing state is conducive to calm and sensible driving.

John Franklin's book is certainly good and I fully agree with him about the necessity of dominance on the roads and painted cycle lanes, but he's very wrong on that mirror issue. It's a no-brainer, the slowest vehicles get overtaken the most and the differential speeds of overtaker and overtaken are the greatest. Therefore the danger from the rear is greatest for the slowest vehicles, and travelling on the road with one's greatest zone of danger mostly unseen is unwise to put it mildly. It's a battle out there, and no-one commanding a warship would only keep a lookout forward or have 180 degree radar.
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[frank9755]

Agreed - I'm a complete convert to mirrors, have put them on all our bikes and feel lost without one. Having a mirror means I look behind me probably not less than ten times as frequently as without one.

 

[frank9755]

The odd thing about those lost parts of journeys though, was that there was never an emergency incident during that period. Perhaps that unknowing state is conducive to calm and sensible driving.
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I think it is that if there had been any incident, you would have instantly reverted to the 'alert' state. When it happens to me on my bike, a red light or a need to stop at a junction has always brought me back to full consciousness - so far!

 

[flecc]

Maybe Frank, but many years ago I used to regularly "lose" around half of a long commute across South London from the West End and regain conciousness as I arrived to stop at a newsagents. Goodness what used to bring me round for that stop, but it never failed!
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[derrick7]

Some observasions

Quote by Django.

......(along with climbers) have a saying - AOTGAOTT, which translates as All Of The Gear All Of The Time.

I was a rock climber/mountaineer for 40 years & I have never heard of this saying!

I wear a helmet, not because of protection, but I like the mirror which clips into it & the flashing rear light which clips onto the rear of the helmet. The helmet is a Bell which came with the mirror & rear light all in one package, I think from Wiggle.

Derrick - Llanberis

 

[JohnInStockie]

Quote by Django.

......(along with climbers) have a saying - AOTGAOTT, which translates as All Of The Gear All Of The Time.

I was a rock climber/mountaineer for 40 years & I have never heard of this saying!

I wear a helmet, not because of protection, but I like the mirror which clips into it & the flashing rear light which clips onto the rear of the helmet. The helmet is a Bell which came with the mirror & rear light all in one package, I think from Wiggle.

Derrick - Llanberis

Snap !!!

Did you get the clip-on raincover too?

John

 

[derrick7]

Reply to John

Snap !!!

Did you get the clip-on raincover too?

John

Yes! But find it to difficult to put on, there's not enough stretch in it, so I don't use it.
Perhaps my fingers/wrists aren't strong enough?

Derrick - Llanberis

 

[Django]

Quote by Django.

......(along with climbers) have a saying - AOTGAOTT, which translates as All Of The Gear All Of The Time.

I was a rock climber/mountaineer for 40 years & I have never heard of this saying!

Derrick - Llanberis

If you had been a climber for just five years, you might have!

Then again, perhaps I just inhabit the wrong (US biased) forums.

 

[The Maestro]

Maybe Frank, but many years ago I used to regularly "lose" around half of a long commute across South London from the West End and regain conciousness as I arrived to stop at a newsagents. Goodness what used to bring me round for that stop, but it never failed!
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It is definately the repetative and mundane nature of communiting the same route everyday that causes the unconscious cycling state in me too. We can only hope that there is something that would bring us back to an alert state if a dangerous situation was developing. I doubt many mountain bikers who just rode down a mountain say to each other 'I can't really remember the trip'!

I actually think some people are more prone to this than others, its a bit like wondering if you've locked the back door when you've gone out. Of course you have locked it because you did it automatically but there's always that nagging doubt.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Yes! But find it to difficult to put on, there's not enough stretch in it, so I don't use it.
Perhaps my fingers/wrists aren't strong enough?

Derrick - Llanberis

Yes it is a bit tricky Derek, but you can do it and its worth it in the rain

John

 

[Mussels]

Yes it is a bit tricky Derek, but you can do it and its worth it in the rain

John

Living in Llanberis I'd expect it's not worth removing the rain cover!

 

[RedSkywalker]

I was unaware that you could get helmets with mirrors fitted until I read derrick7's post - seemed like a good idea so I had a look to see what was available.

The Bell Metro with accessories comes in at £50 and it looks ok (I'm no racer and it'll be used mainly for short in town commutes) but that still left me with one other problem which I haven't seen mentioned on any of the threads here - tears!

When I start riding the wind in my eyes seems to make them water like blazes and I've been thinking about using a pair of safety glasses to stop this happening - am I the only one with this problem? Also a few weeks back I was riding in the country on a lovely sunny day [yes, we do get them now and then ] and the amount of tiny wee flys that got into my eyes was incredible!

So while I was looking at helmets with mirrors I came across a mirror that fits onto glasses and my thinking now is that this fitted to the safety glasses would solve both my problems - has anybody else tried one of these mirrors?

 

[Mussels]

So while I was looking at helmets with mirrors I came across a mirror that fits onto glasses and my thinking now is that this fitted to the safety glasses would solve both my problems - has anybody else tried one of these mirrors?

I've not tried these but I do find that heavy glasses get tiresome very quickly, I imagine having a mirror sticking out into the wind and pulling on them would make them very uncomfortable.
Cycling glasses do not need to cost a lot, I recently bought a variety of shades in Aldi for about £3 each.

 

[Orraman]

Take a Look cyclist's mirror, scroll down the page.
I emailed Gregory and asked for the RIGHT hand standard version.
It weighs 5 grams, is adjustable on the move and is easily removed.
A helmet adapter is available.
The mirror made of acrylic.

I don't know how to create a small link but the address of the actual page is rather long.

Dave

eBay Seller: gr8bikes4u: Sporting Goods items on eBay.co.uk