What is a pedelec

[Kudoscycles]

Simple question but actually everyone has a different answer.
To my mind,a pedelec is first and foremost a bicycle, unassisted it should still be a nice bike to ride as a bicycle. The electric power should be an addition to assist up hills and should be integral into the bike,by that I mean that the electric power should be an additional assistance but not essential to achieving reasonable progress. There are a number of electrically assisted bikes which are useless to ride without the power assist,I think these are not pedelecs they are motorbikes-I don't think a pedelec can weigh 37 kilos!
The KTM bikes are excellent examples of pedelecs which are still nice to ride without the power assist. Kudos is working on a new range of bikes which are primarily bicycles,nice to ride as bicycles,but with the power assist when you choose,not obligatory to maintain satisfactory progress,the first 2 bikes will have draft info in about 2 weeks,delivery late November,not expensive.
For me the future of e-bikes is lighter,less rolling resistance but not necessarily higher power,certainly not illegal power.
KudosDave

 

[Wander]

I do 'get' what you mean.

When I first got my Haibike I would have it in Turbo (4) constantly. Now my experience & fitness have increased my default mode is Tour (2) & I sometimes go down to Eco (1) & in fact I enjoy the experience more for it, knowing that it is helping with fitness & strength.

Now I only switch up to Sport (3) & Turbo (4) to get up those hills which would be a virtual non starter for me on any bike, pedelec or not.

 

[Geebee]

Even my Esprit at 25 kg was ridden mostly out of assist speed and I just reduced cadence for steep hills to pickup more assist.
No ebike will be as nice a ride as an un assisted bike due to weight, having said that a Dutch city bike will be a similar weight as mine so I would think there would be little difference.
Your definition is a bit limiting as I suspect 90% or more ebikes are never ridden without the assist on,even if doing very little to help.
Your description would be best suited to a light CD with mutiple rings, no drag, weight where it wont hurt handling and QR's for easy transport and fitting decent wheels.

 

[Artstu]

The KTM bikes are excellent examples of pedelecs which are still nice to ride without the power assist.

That's your opinion, and one I do not agree with.

A pedelec is a bicycle with a low power motor fitted, which assists the rider when they pedal. a nice and simple device, that enhances the experience of riding the bike.

 

[JohnCade]

I agree it would be nice to get the weight down. I pedal past the cut off on the few flat bits where I live all the time but the moment the road goes slightly uphill the 25 kgs are really noticeable and the speed drops to assist pretty quickly.

Something around the 15 kg and you really could ride it more like a normal bike in all terrain. I live in a very hilly area though and what I like about my current TS CD is the bionic legs effect. I like leaving it in high assist and putting in a lot of effort and going uphill like a pro rider instead of an old fart.

But I'm either going uphill or downhill ninety percent of the time so the power is either on, or off because I'm going too fast for it. If I lived somewhere like Norfolk I would never have got into e bikes at all.

 

[JohnCade]

No ebike will be as nice a ride as an un assisted bike due to weight, having said that a Dutch city bike will be a similar weight as mine so I would think there would be little difference.
Your definition is a bit limiting as I suspect 90% or more ebikes are never ridden without the assist on,even if doing very little to help.
Your description would be best suited to a light CD with mutiple rings, no drag, weight where it wont hurt handling and QR's for easy transport and fitting decent wheels.

Very flat, Holland.

 

[flecc]

To my mind,a pedelec is first and foremost a bicycle, unassisted it should still be a nice bike to ride as a bicycle. The electric power should be an addition to assist up hills and should be integral into the bike,by that I mean that the electric power should be an additional assistance but not essential to achieving reasonable progress.

Fully agreed Dave.

In this respect the best pedelec I owned was my first one, the Panasonic crank unit powered Giant Lafree Twist Lite which weighed just 22 kilos. That was good, considering it had an NiMh battery which alone weighed almost two of those kilos.

In the almost six years of ownership I never once turned on the power as I left home, leaving that until the first hill which could be as late as three miles away or only half a mile, depending on direction in my hilly area. In that three mile unpowered direction where it was flat I usually cycled at around 17 to 19 mph, showing how easy it was to pedal and just like any good normal bike. With the battery left out it really was like a normal bike.

Nothing standard I've owned or tried since has matched that. Some bettered it on various points, e-power in particular, but none have got close to being as good to ride like an ordinary bike. Many have been appalling to ride without power, verging on the impossible.

One range of commercial e-bikes have been designed to your spec Dave, the Cytronex models. They are just well known sound road bikes with a minimal assistance setup added, little Tongxin front hub motor, 4.5 Ah neat bottle battery for hill assistance only, and with a simple control system. When I was fifteen years younger and still a capable all-round rider I could have been very much in the market for those, but now at my age I need more assistance time than that can give.
.

 

[shemozzle999]

One range of commercial e-bikes have been designed to your spec Dave, the Cytronex models. They are just well known sound road bikes with a minimal assistance setup added, little Tongxin front hub motor, 4.5 Ah neat bottle battery for hill assistance only, and with a simple control system. When I was fifteen years younger and still a capable all-round rider I could have been very much in the market for those, but now at my age I need more assistance time than that can give.
.

also the FWG Raptor

http://freegoelectricbikes.com/electric-bikes/FreeGoBike/freego-raptor/FreeGo-Raptor5-5:

 

[MikeRo]

I'm absolutely convinced that within the next 30 years it will become difficult to buy an adult bike without some form of electric assistance. The range and weight are already good - these will improve further with newer battery technologies. I built mine to help a specific problem- towing a heavy trailer, but as we all know, it makes riding even more fun and accessible- why would I ever want an unassisted bike?

 

[flecc]

why would I ever want an unassisted bike?

While clearly not for you, for many the pleasure of riding unassisted and the fitness it gives, the same reasons why anyone indulges in any high activity pursuit.

I've had some sort of involvement or interest in powered bicycles since i first fitted assistance motors in the 1950s, but it wasn't until I was 67 that I first bought an e-bike. Even then, like you, it was to help with trailer pulling, and it wasn't for two more years that I gave up unpowered leisure cycling.
.

 

[oigoi]

I think a person's definition will depend on what you want it to do. As an overarching principle I think it involves a combination of pedal and electric power. The proportions of these two powers will vary on personal preference. If you get to a point where you complete entire journeys without putting in any effort yourself its not really a pedelec anymore it becomes an electric scooter.

 

[Geebee]

I'm absolutely convinced that within the next 30 years it will become difficult to buy an adult bike without some form of electric assistance.

You would be absolutely incorrect.
A lot of people enjoy riding a purely human powered machine, it is a great feeling getting to the top of a mountain under your own power, or just riding into town and back etc.
An unpowered bike will always be lighter and more agile, you dont have to worry about the range of the battery, you can throw it in the garage for a year and then inflate the tyres and ride, you can own the same bike for decades and not worry about parts and batteries not being available.
But the main thing is the sheer joy of riding a light well built bike/ trike with only your legs to propel you.

 

[MikeRo]

You would be absolutely incorrect.
A lot of people enjoy riding a purely human powered machine, it is a great feeling getting to the top of a mountain under your own power, or just riding into town and back etc.
An unpowered bike will always be lighter and more agile, you dont have to worry about the range of the battery, you can throw it in the garage for a year and then inflate the tyres and ride, you can own the same bike for decades and not worry about parts and batteries not being available.
But the main thing is the sheer joy of riding a light well built bike/ trike with only your legs to propel you.

Can we sticky the thread for 30 years and check back? ;-) remember the first personal computer and mobile phones?

 

[Tubamanandy]

Am I missing something here ? My e-bike is a pig to cycle with the power off but brilliant with it on. It's not the weight of the bike causing the issue but I guess its the resistance of the gears in the motor.

Are most e-bikes like this or is it only the much more expensive ones that pedal (not ride) almost as easy with the power on or off ?

 

[RobF]

Some people don't get the pure joy of riding a lightweight bicycle in favourable conditions.

I do, so to me an ebike will always be inferior in that sense - they all ride like pigs with the power off, although some are less disagreeable than others.

 

[MikeRo]

Am I missing something here ? My e-bike is a pig to cycle with the power off but brilliant with it on. It's not the weight of the bike causing the issue but I guess its the resistance of the gears in the motor.

Are most e-bikes like this or is it only the much more expensive ones that pedal (not ride) almost as easy with the power on or off ?

You need a freewheeling motor, then there is no resistance

 

[MikeRo]

Some people don't get the pure joy of riding a lightweight bicycle in favourable conditions.

I do, so to me an ebike will always be inferior in that sense - they all ride like pigs with the power off, although some are less disagreeable than others.

I get it, but 'favourable conditions' are not the norm outside of Holland. My Giant MTB is never a pig to ride. Without the battery, it's still more enjoyable than a cheap conventional bike with low end components.

 

[D C]

I get it, but 'favourable conditions' are not the norm outside of Holland

I can't agree with that, favourable conditions to me are not endless flat roads but slightly challenging hilly tracks with great views, ideally on a crisp sunny day.
Have a look at Tin Kittens photos along with many others.
Each to their own so no offence intended.

 

[MikeRo]

I can't agree with that, favourable conditions to me are not endless flat roads but slightly challenging hilly tracks with great views, ideally on a crisp sunny day.
Have a look at Tin Kittens photos along with many others.
Each to their own so no offence intended.

No offence taken, I actually agree with you, but most of the population clearly don't judging by the amount of car journeys vs bike journeys.

 

[Twangman]

To me a Pedelec is first and foremost a Hybrid neither bike or moped.
Now how much you want it style wise to look like a bike or something entirely different is down to individual preference, same with the question of having a throttle or not or how much pedal input vs motor. People use their bikes in different ways. Some to commute to work, some for off road ect. I have a throttle on my bike and tend to use it solely on the last mile or two home when I had enough of peddling