What do you think is best for me?

Hi there.

I've got a list of things I need from a bike and am a bit lost before I go try a shortlist out.

Here is what I need..

1) 2k limit but prefer to pay a lot less

2) I don't drive, my bike is my car (I currently have an efolder but badly need an upgrade) so it has to be reliable.

3) Distance - minimum 35 miles on full assist, but really need further if possible

4) Terrain - I regularly cycle on canal paths, nobbly tracks and on road.

5) Good with a trailer and/or rear basket- I have smelly dogs/shopping to pull

6) Full size wheels

What do you think?

Hi there.

 

I've got a list of things I need from a bike and am a bit lost before I go try a shortlist out.

 

Here is what I need..

 

1) 2k limit but prefer to pay a lot less

2) I don't drive, my bike is my car (I currently have an efolder but badly need an upgrade) so it has to be reliable.

3) Distance - minimum 35 miles on full assist, but really need further if possible

4) Terrain - I regularly cycle on canal paths, nobbly tracks and on road.

5) Good with a trailer and/or rear basket- I have smelly dogs/shopping to pull

6) Full size wheels

 

What do you think?

I think you're spoiled for choice!

You could help narrow it down by giving a budget.

"Full assist" is the difficulty - I take it you mean "full speed throttle"?

Do you live anywhere near a specialist where you can go, sit on and test ride to see how a bike feels?

Im five foot six, currently twelve stone but am shaking the flab off slowly - target ten stone

Sorry by full assist I meant on the highest setting on pedal assist - I don't use a throttle. I can get to Loughborough on a bus for a tester - Im in Lincs- that's not a problem. I was after what people considered would be their choice with what I require then I could narrow it down for a test ride

Ok budget - 1500- 2K

Im five foot six, currently twelve stone but am shaking the flab off slowly - target ten stone

 

Sorry by full assist I meant on the highest setting on pedal assist - I don't use a throttle. I can get to Loughborough on a bus for a tester - Im in Lincs- that's not a problem. I was after what people considered would be their choice with what I require then I could narrow it down for a test ride

 

Ok budget - 1500- 2K

Cube Reaction Hybrid HPA Pro (2016)

Tykus,Fosse electric bikes of Leicester.

Their top selling bike is the Kudos Tornado,£1095.00... It should do you use fine.

KudosDave

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't sure about a full on mountain bike as I ride on smooth roads too...Ive never ridden a mtb so I don't really know.

I was looking at the Kalkhoff Pro Connect 9G but wasn't sure if I would trash it on the off road tracks. It has the distance I need but parts of my regular route are pretty rough (the Grantham-Notts canal)

Hence my confusion... a crosscycle, mtb, or hybrid....

A 10/11ah or 400ish wh battery ebike will struggle to do 35 miles on full assist.

That's dependent on conditions, Lincolnshire is known to be relatively flat, although lack of gradient can be replaced by wind.

A 500 wh Bosch or now Yamaha ebike might do it, as should a Kalkhoff with a bigger battery.

Problem there is reliability, lots of motors failing on Kalkhoffs.

That is supposed to be being addressed by the maker/importer, but that should be taken with a pinch of salt - I wouldn't take the risk, you may be prepared to.

I'm not familiar with the Grantham/Notts canal, but most canal paths are not rough enough to be any problem to a decent quality bike, electrified or otherwise.

The bigger capacity battery (575Wh) on the Wisper Torque (here's the 905) states a range of 75 miles - I don't know what level of assist that's based on but I think the torque sensor gives a better range than a cadence sensor (since the manual says that switching it into "F" (cadence) mode will reduce the range).

I'm sure there are other bikes that offer a bigger battery capacity option, too (I just happen to have the Wisper spec in my head having bought one recently). A bigger battery will add probably a couple of hundred quid to the price of a bike over the "basic" (around 375Wh) battery - the Wisper would still come into your budget range at about £1.7K with the bigger battery so I'm sure you'll be able to find something suitable.

Thanks Angelnorth,

Hi Tykus, welcome to the forum!

The 575Wh battery on a Wisper Torque will easily achieve 35 miles on level 3 or 4 with a rider of 12st in flat conditions.

The reason bikes with torque sensors have longer range than bikes without is due to the efficiency in the way the power is used. For instance on the flat a rider puts very little pressure onto the pedals so the bike offers less assistance. When pedalling down hill even less power is used. A bike with a standard cadence or speed sensor simply turns the bike on and off so the power is always on even if pedalling down hill.

Some riders prefer to have full power on the flat, so we have added an F mode that turns off the torque sensor and relies, like other bikes, on cadence sensor alone. Of course in F mode range is reduced.

I hope that makes sense?!

We have a stockist in Lincs if you would like details.

All the best, David

Im five foot six, currently twelve stone but am shaking the flab off slowly - target ten stone

 

Sorry by full assist I meant on the highest setting on pedal assist - I don't use a throttle. I can get to Loughborough on a bus for a tester - Im in Lincs- that's not a problem. I was after what people considered would be their choice with what I require then I could narrow it down for a test ride

 

Ok budget - 1500- 2K

That's a large budget, so unless you aren't willing to pay much less then doesn't narrow down your choice very much.

I'm pretty sure a 250W Hub Drive with 14AH battery is your guaranteed solution, and quite possibly a smaller battery would also do the job, depending on what effort you are happy to contribute.

I think, until you've taken your first test rides, you will not have a clear idea of what to expect from the bike and from your legs.

Can you get to Lincoln or Kings Lynn for a test ride of Juicy Bikes? I think your ride isn't particularly taxing and even a GTech (with a couple of spare batteries) might even do what you want...

Thankyou for the replies - most helpful At the moment I have a 10ah Samsung battery and I can get 40-50k out of it quite easily and do this 2-3 times a week (I have seizures so my legs arent always loose to turn the battery off) - believe it or not Im in a hilly part of Lincs lol - the Vale of Belvoir so it's not all flat

Yes I can get to Lincoln so will take a look into that. It's not that I want to pay more it's just I presumed - more cash = better range and reliability. Am I wrong?

I am not engineer minded - cant even wire a plug for gods sake! So the torque/ power thing just does not compute. I will do some research. Thankyou for the help.

A bike with a standard cadence or speed sensor simply turns the bike on and off so the power is always on even if pedalling down hill.

"Standard" cadence sensor means old fashioned square wave controller with speed setting assistance levels I presume? Your sentence is very misleading, PAS doesn't work like that on a modern bike worth over £600.

My bike uses exactly 0 W downhill pedaling or not.

Most bikes are made in China or use Chinese parts.

Power is limited(ish) by law so performance is generally similar.

The pricing is based on branding and add on bits.

So better frame, wheels,bakes and gears up the price. But the electrics are generally similar until you pay a lot more.

Bigger batteries cost more and are generally worth it. Range is dependant on fuel tank and that's the tank. Samsung and Panasonic are branded and considered good value(they last) unbranded are mostly OK, some bikes have 5 year old batteries still going strong.

Three types of control,

twist and go throttle. Let's you adjust the oomph with your hand, simple and effective, to be legal you have to move the pedals at the same time.

Simpler is the turn pedals and it goes, the basic standard control system.

Control is crude, power is off or on and fine speed control is hard.

Torque control is push the pedal and it measures how hard and multiplies that by a factor usually half, same, and double power. It's the natural cycling feel but with younger legs. Great control of speed and helps range too.

If you do over 15 mph the assist cuts out, so it's just you and the down hill. Using no battery at all.

Climbing hills eats the batteries. It's basic physics that to move mass up hill requires energy.

Ya canna beat the laws o physics captain. But you can go to slimming world:D

Edited July 31, 20169 yr by D8ve

Most bikes are made in China or use Chinese parts.

Power is limited(ish) by law so performance is generally similar.

The pricing is based on branding and add on bits.

So better frame, wheels,bakes and gears up the price. But the electrics are generally similar until you pay a lot more.

Bigger batteries cost more and are generally worth it. Range is dependant on fuel tank and that's the tank. Samsung and Panasonic are branded and considered good value(they last) unbranded are mostly OK, some bikes have 5 year old batteries still going strong.

Three types of control,

twist and go throttle. Let's you adjust the oomph with your hand, simple and effective, to be legal you have to move the pedals at the same time.

Simpler is the turn pedals and it goes, the basic standard control system.

Control is crude, power is off or on and fine speed control is hard.

Torque control is push the pedal and it measures how hard and multiplies that by a factor usually half, same, and double power. It's the natural cycling feel but with younger legs. Great control of speed and helps range too.

If you do over 15 mph the assist cuts out, so it's just you and the down hill. Using no battery at all.

Climbing hills eats the batteries. It's basic physics that to move mass up hill requires energy.

Ya canna beat the laws o physics captain. But you can go to slimming world:D

Just a couple of points to add....

Whilst we are all restricted to 250 watts,it can be critical at what speed the power is delivered. One of the most demanding manoeuvres on a bike are hill starts....the SWX type motors fitted to most Chinese bikes don't start to deliver useable torque until 8 mph,the BPM motor fitted to our MTB style bikes like our Kudos Arriba/Tornado will deliver useable torque from 4 mph.

Such is the torque spread with the BPM motor I prefer using it to crank drive,even the expensive Bosch crank drive has to have a sophisticated system to reduce the power when changing gear,that can lower momentum when climbing hills. The only downsides of the BPM motor is additional cost and weight.

Samsung and Panasonic produce most of the core cells used by Chinese battery manufacturers,they often only make the casing.

I have moved away from torque sensor,to be honest most customers don't understand that a torque sensor only delivers power when you load the pedals,if your legs are tired you still need to pedal hard to get max power.

Whereas a speed sensor is a rotary switch,turn pedals-get power,if you want a workout you can always turn the power down.

A torque sensor is for a rider who is already pretty fit and wants to get fitter.

Hope that helps.

KudosDave

Edited July 31, 20169 yr by Kudoscycles

"Standard" cadence sensor means old fashioned square wave controller with speed setting assistance levels I presume? Your sentence is very misleading, PAS doesn't work like that on a modern bike worth over £600.

 

My bike uses exactly 0 W downhill pedaling or not.

That's really interesting. On the cadence sensor only bikes I know the act of simply turning the pedals will turn on the motor. If of course you are going down a very steep hill the motor will be on and driving but will use very little power.

I should have been more clear and said a "slight decline" rather than down hill. Either way my point is that a bike with a cadence sensor only will not achieve the same range as an bike fitted with a decent torque sensor.

Sorry for any confusion.

All the best, David

I should add that torque sensor bikes will give a rider instant power on a flat or hill start from 0 miles an hour.

Very useful especially on steep hills.

Our torque sensor bike is unique, the rider can toggle between torque sensor setting and the more basic speed sensor setting whilst the bike is on the move. Giving the rider the best of both worlds.

The Wisper torque system does make our bikes a little more expensive but everyone who try's our bikes loves the fact both choices are available.

All the best, David

 

a bike with a cadence sensor only will not achieve the same range as an bike fitted with a decent torque sensor.

KD demonstrated that you can get a very big range if you push the bike regularly above the maximum cut off speed.

KD demonstrated that you can get a very big range if you push the bike regularly above the maximum cut off speed.

Even better if you disconnect the motor!

KD demonstrated that you can get a very big range if you push the bike regularly above the maximum cut off speed.

Or I can get 140 miles on 16ah battery but I recharge every 100 miles anyway even if it isn't needed

A torque sensor is for a rider who is already pretty fit and wants to get fitter

I find this assertion fascinating. I don't consider myself remotely fit. I have some nerve issues caused by MS that limit my walking range to about 20-25 minutes. One of the reasons I wanted a bike was that I was conscious of the fact that the longer I'm not doing significant walking I'm losing muscle and wanted something that would mean some exercise to counteract that alongside some assistance if I need it. It's probably safe to say my legs are not especially strong.

I've only had my Wisper Torque for a couple of days so I haven't ventured far yet but I have taken it up a couple of significant hills. I've managed just fine with the combination of assist and being able to use throttle just by keeping the pedals turning for the couple of bits that were just too steep for me to manage, even with top level assistance.

So maybe it's yet more grist to the "try before you buy" mill? I just felt so much more comfortable with the torque sensor than the cadence but other folk are the opposite, whether that's to do with fitness or expectation or whatever.

Edited July 31, 20169 yr by Angelnorth

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Ya canna beat the laws o physics captain. But you can go to slimming world:D

Thanks for that - a little clearer - are you calling me fat ?

Hi Angelnorth, thanks for explaining the Wisoer Torque system better than I have!

Dave is correct a standard Torque system such as in most mid motor systems is fantastic but you do need a certain level of fitness.

The beauty of the Wisper Torque system is you get the best of both worlds.

1. A Torque system for immediate motor assistance as soon as you set off especially on hills. And the economy of power resulting in longer ranges than a standard speed sensor.

2. By either twisting the throttle or going to setting F on the handlebar Display, the torque setting is overridden and the rider gets immediate full power, no matter how much pressure is being put into the pedals.

It took a long time to perfect but we think it's unique and currently the best system on the market.

All the best, David

D8ve,

'Torque control is push the pedal and it measures how hard and multiplies that by a factor usually half, same, and double power. It's the natural cycling feel but with younger legs.'.

- is this what the Volt Pulse and Wisper 905 Torque bikes provide?

Thanks.