What about facts and figures?

[Deleted member 4366]

But what you're saying doesn't add up!. On the one hand you're saying that there's too much technical discussion on the forum, and on the other hand, you're saying people aren't interested in it. Maybe the penny will drop soon.

 

[RobF]

While was I playing with that old Gazelle in the bike shop I saw a couple of sales of ordinary bikes.

Both were quite quick.

A guy bought a hybrid to replace one that was stolen - he was chuffed he could still get the same size and model so bought it on the spot.

A younger man bought a £500 mountain bike - that sale took a bit longer but not much.

He said he had been to Evans and liked one there, but the only colour was luminous green which he didn't fancy.

He was carless and a mate was giving him a lift around the bike shops, so he wanted something sorted while he had access to his mate's car.

Neither customer asked anything technical.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

But what you're saying doesn't add up!. On the one hand you're saying that there's too much technical discussion on the forum, and on the other hand, you're saying people aren't interested in it. Maybe the penny will drop soon.

the two are 100% related.

What I'm saying is this forum is populated by a small number of people and a small % of the eBike buying public... part of the reason for this is forums generally aren't as popular because of other forms of social media are more common.

The people on this forum care a lot of about the details, which is fine and we'll try to support this where we can - which is why we're here. But you should be aware, that the constant discussions about detailed numbers / electronics / kits etc etc, turn off the vast majority of the eBike buying public.

All we're saying is that all the people on this forum might want more details, but you shouldn't confuse this with a general need in the "real world" because it isn't needed, or wanted by the vast majority of people who are handing over cash to buy new bikes.

Col.

 

[RobF]

Also d8 comes at this from a kit background where buyers are inevitably a bit more interested in technical details.

Buyers of complete bikes generally are not.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I can't really understand what your point is. People can come to this forum and discuss anything they want whether they want to talk about a nice ride they had, or what type of tyres to fit, or what a nice time they had at a recent event. As far as I can see, most people come here in the first place because they want an answer to a question, like, "What's the best bike for me and why?" and "I have a problem. How do I fix it?"

What do you want to change? If you can think of a new section, then propose it, and we'll see how much interest it gets.

 

[LEBC Tom]

I'll back Colin up on this and not because I'm KTM dealer but because Ive dealt with 1,000's of potential and existing customers since opening my doors in August of last year.

80% of those that walk in aren't interested in the technical aspect of the bike they just want a bike that will fit their needs, or want to know what an electric bicycle is, the rest are pretty 'clued' up and either want a specific bike or seem to want to test my knowledge.

 

[flecc]

Certainly the great majority of the buying public are not interested in anything technical about the products they buy. But since they want to appeal to all potential customers, the motor manufacturers have separate website sections and a page or two at the back of their catalogues with all the technical data anyone might want.

But as said earlier, e-bike sellers have a very real problem with including all the technical data due to the laws on e-bike power and speed, so I fully understand them avoiding that.

Those wanting to find technical information on e-bikes need a forum such as this where they can learn what they want to know. That comes from those who have researched any manufacturer information given and had experience of the product in question, so are able to give sufficient information.

So there is an inexorable force driving the forum towards a technical bent. I don't see the technical content as a problem, it's the sparcity of other information that is. Of course there will be those put off from entering due to seeing so much technical content, but I think they will be in the minority.

The reason the vast majority of the e-bikers out there don't come to a forum such as this is simple, they've bought their e-bike, often from a dealer, it's doing what they want and expect so they have nothing to discuss. They are not enthusiasts, just users.

Inevitably there comes the day when something goes wrong, and if a dealer can't fix it or if they've bought online they visit this forum to ask for help. But once it's given they don't come back in, the member listings showing that over 80% of the membership have only posted once or a very few times in one thread to seek a solution.
.

 

[trex]

Certainly the great majority of the buying public are not interested in anything technical about the products they buy.
...
.

perhaps they should be more interested, or instead of getting the best bike for their needs and budget, they may be sold what the store wants to push. The forum has saved members a lot of money. The reason that the forum gets more technical is an indication that it's moving in the right direction.

 

[LEBC Tom]

perhaps they should be more interested, or instead of getting the best bike for their needs and budget, they may be sold what the store wants to push.

Not how I sell my range of bikes, if we don't have it then we don't have it. I'll send customers to others if I have to and have done. Its impossible to offer all to everyone, not wanting to sound arrogant but I'm not desperate to sell just any bike, it should always be the 'right' bike thats sold, that way I get no hassle or come back and as a customer I hope they go away feeling they've been looked after and in turn tell others.

 

[trex]

Tom, there have been recently a few threads about advice for heavy riders with hills to cope with. You know as well as I know that Ezee and BPM motors are best for this situation. How come most e-bike shops don't stock them? more than half the space in bike shops I've been to is given to sporty looking bikes without mudguard nor throttle while 80% of customers could do with a throttle and mudguards.

 

[flecc]

perhaps they should be more interested, or instead of getting the best bike for their needs and budget, they may be sold what the store wants to push. The forum has saved members a lot of money. The reason that the forum gets more technical is an indication that it's moving in the right direction.

That's the view of someone technical Trex, but the non-technical tend not to agree. That's not so much cussedness as the inability of so many to grasp technicalities. I know it's difficult for the technically inclined to perceive why others often simply can't understand, but wishing it different and giving the valid reasons why they should try to won't change anything.

Our universities give a clue, the vast majority opting for the arts rather than science. A second clue is in the brochures from the highly experienced motor manufacturers that I mentioned before, several glossy pages of propaganda at the front for the majority and the technical information in a bald presentation page or two at the back for the minority.

A further clue lies in the "traffic lights" nutrition information on packaged foods, introduced because most of the public simply couldn't grasp the meaning of the excellent content data.
.

 

[shemozzle999]

I personally don't see a problem, the opening page is commercially set up and points potential uninformed buyers to go to the guides for information from the drop down menus and avoid the need to even enter the forum section.

 

[RobF]

That's the view of someone technical Trex, but the non-technical tend not to agree. That's not so much cussedness as the inability of so many to grasp technicalities. I know it's difficult for the technically inclined to perceive why others often simply can't understand, but wishing it different and giving the valid reasons why they should try to won't change anything.

Our universities give a clue, the vast majority opting for the arts rather than science. A second clue is in the brochures from the highly experienced motor manufacturers that I mentioned before, several glossy pages of propaganda at the front for the majority and the technical information in a bald presentation page or two at the back for the minority.

A further clue lies in the "traffic lights" nutrition information on packaged foods, introduced because most of the public simply couldn't grasp the meaning using the excellent content data.
.

Wise words - as usual - from Flecc.

Like them or not, car makers are expert salesmen.

If a workshop manual would sell one more car, that is what they would give away as a brochure.

The brochures are packed with arguably pointless lifestyle pics because that is what works.

 

[shemozzle999]

If dealers and distributors want more presence and coverage on the front page then they need to pay the piper.

 

[jackhandy]

I agree many people don't ask techie quesrions, but those that show interest in my bike generally want to know:-

How much does it cost?
How fast does it go?
How far does it go?
Does it recharge as you pedal?
Does it help you get up hills?

Once I've explained the facts of life re: regen we usually spend time discussing hill-climbing: Probably due to the topography of the area in which I ride.

Personally, I'd love to see a smallish table of genuine, repeatable figures for each of the above.

 

[LEBC Tom]

Tom, there have been recently a few threads about advice for heavy riders with hills to cope with. You know as well as I know that Ezee and BPM motors are best for this situation. How come most e-bike shops don't stock them? more than half the space in bike shops I've been to is given to sporty looking bikes without mudguard nor throttle while 80% of customers could do with a throttle and mudguards.

I don't know, did you ask the shops you were in? I know we have them though (Kudos Arriba, Tornado, Typhoon, Escape 29er) and I'm in a relatively 'flat' area compared to others in the country.

 

[trex]

I know you do, but other shops don't, that's my point.

 

[Deus]

Tom, there have been recently a few threads about advice for heavy riders with hills to cope with. You know as well as I know that Ezee and BPM motors are best for this situation. How come most e-bike shops don't stock them? more than half the space in bike shops I've been to is given to sporty looking bikes without mudguard nor throttle while 80% of customers could do with a throttle and mudguards.

I 100% agree with Trex's post im a newbie and have not bought my first ebike yet but looking at most shop displays they all seem to be sporty type bikes with no mudguards and no throttles, i think quite a few people who buy their first ebike will end up with something that is not really suitable for them because they were drawn into the look of a bike rather than how it suited their needs.
I will also add that i came to this forum as a complete newbie and i came here looking for technical /specs data on the current ebikes available maybe im not your typical first time buyer.

 

[flecc]

I agree many people don't ask techie quesrions, but those that show interest in my bike generally want to know:-

How much does it cost?
How fast does it go?
How far does it go?
Does it recharge as you pedal?
Does it help you get up hills?

Once I've explained the facts of life re: regen we usually spend time discussing hill-climbing: Probably due to the topography of the area in which I ride.

Personally, I'd love to see a smallish table of genuine, repeatable figures for each of the above.

I'm sure most sites and all dealers give the first two and the answer to the last is surely obvious.

But is how far does it go possible? I think not. The fact of two power sources, rider and motor means that the range is akin to the length of a piece of string, I can quote instances of 3 to 1 for actual range figures achieved by different riders.

Only the regen query answer isn't readily available, though dealers can explain for their transactions.

 

[trex]

the contentious area is in advising members which bike to buy. D8veh gave an example yesterday,

The problem is that many people have these specific requirements, like: "I'm a fat bar steward and there's lots of hills where I live. I have a budget of £1000".
...

If this member walks into a shop, which one of these two replies is more likely? 'buy a Big Bear on the internet' or 'you need to up your budget to £2k and I have a Kalkhoff here that'll do it very nicely'.