Warning; ebike batteries have short lives!

[PJ53YYY]

I bought an Orbea Gain with the ebikemotion X35 system. I didn't consider at that time that I would need to replace the battery at some point. The batteries last for 10 years+, yes? No!
3 years on and the battery is kaput! I've seen recently on a forum that the life of an ebike battery is expected to be only 3 to 5 years. So I was unlucky mine only lasting 3 years but it seems I should not have been so shocked when it failed. However, a bigger shock was the price of a fitted replacement £800! I do not want to spend out £800 every 3 to 5 years. In fact, I do not want to spend that now and currently have what was a very expensive bike sitting in the garage going nowhere.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Replace it yourself ?

 

[saneagle]

Replace it yourself ?

Worst video I've ever seen for how to do something. There were no BB or forks in that frame. Do you have to remove them first? Every time I wanted to see something, the video cut and jumped forward to miss it.

 

[PJ53YYY]

Thanks for the suggestion. However, the retail price of the battery is still £650. With regards to fitting myself, I've seen those videos, they make it look so easy. You'll notice in the videos the chainset/axle and front fork have been removed. I don't have the tools to remove and replace the chainset and axle and I understand new cups will be required. The hydraulic brake cables and gear cables go through the stem/front fork steerer, I would be very nervous removing and replacing them. Also, I understand the battery has to be "programmed" to the motor which requires a registered/approved workshop anyway.

 

[matthewslack]

Small battery: compared to larger battery, will be spending more time at lower state of charge.
Hub motor: compared to mid-drive will be spending more time under higher load.

Not surprising that lifetime is lower.

 

[saneagle]

Thanks for the suggestion. However, the retail price of the battery is still £650. With regards to fitting myself, I've seen those videos, they make it look so easy. You'll notice in the videos the chainset/axle and front fork have been removed. I don't have the tools to remove and replace the chainset and axle and I understand new cups will be required. The hydraulic brake cables and gear cables go through the stem/front fork steerer, I would be very nervous removing and replacing them. Also, I understand the battery has to be "programmed" to the motor which requires a registered/approved workshop anyway.

Thanks for pointing all this out. It must be even worse for someone who bought the bike from an online seller and has no local dealer to do it.

The battery is relatively small, so the cells get a much harder time than ones in a bigger battery, and therefore wouldn't last as long. Also, it looks like the battery unit contains the controller too, which would add to the expense.

Overall, that battery replacement is a disaster area. I wouldn't recommend the Mahle X35 system to anyone unless they didn't care about the expense.

 

[sjpt]

Cycling UK website tends to have more about the Mahle system as it appears to match the requirements of many Cycling UK members. I'm afraid my feeling from browsing that site is not positive. In particular, on batteries

Reliability of Mahle batteries - Page 2 - Cycling UK Forum

At least the highly priced Bosch batteries give you a decent capacity and (usually) long life; and many are available discounted from the likes of Merlin.

 

[PJ53YYY]

The comments regarding the small battery are interesting. I always thought the Mahle X35 battery to be a decent size. 1; because I find the bike heavy, I was assuming partly due to the "large" battery, and 2; because most of my rides are about 30 miles and I only use 15 to 20% of the battery. I guess I am use to a small battery because I also have a converted hybrid bike with a Swytch kit fitted with a 5.2ah battery and again I have no problem with the range it provides. The Orbea feels heavier than the converted hybrid, although I haven't actually weighed them, which I thought was because of the larger battery. Incidentally, I have been very pleased with the Swytch kit, it is older than the Orbea, and have even thought about fitting the battery and sensor to the Orbea and connecting to the X35 wheel!

 

[lenny]

Presenting Orbea's new Gain with the ebikemotion X35+ motor – No pain, no gain?

Orbea choose the new MAHLE ebikemotion X35+ hub motor for their latest Gain model range, putting the pressure on in the E-road market.

granfondo-cycling.com

 

[Peter.Bridge]

The comments regarding the small battery are interesting. I always thought the Mahle X35 battery to be a decent size. 1; because I find the bike heavy, I was assuming partly due to the "large" battery, and 2; because most of my rides are about 30 miles and I only use 15 to 20% of the battery. I guess I am use to a small battery because I also have a converted hybrid bike with a Swytch kit fitted with a 5.2ah battery and again I have no problem with the range it provides. The Orbea feels heavier than the converted hybrid, although I haven't actually weighed them, which I thought was because of the larger battery. Incidentally, I have been very pleased with the Swytch kit, it is older than the Orbea, and have even thought about fitting the battery and sensor to the Orbea and connecting to the X35 wheel!

I would be very interested how the Orbea compares with the £699 16.5kg Woosh Faro (with 8Ah battery) . I know the Orbea has drop handlebars , but I was wondering how much hype there is around the X35. A replacement Woosh battery only costs £199. A new Faro costs less than the Orbea replacement battery !

 

[matthewslack]

250Wh, half or less than most new bikes today.

30 miles on 15 to 20% of that suggests a woefully inaccurate system, such as a simple voltage measurement. Have you ridden it to empty to see maximum range?

I don't know the system's innards, but if it is 'generic' there is a chance you could bin the battery and plumb in an externally mounted generic one instead.

 

[Az.]

In fact, I do not want to spend that now and currently have what was a very expensive bike sitting in the garage going nowhere.

This is why we always recommend here to think and ask before buying.
I stay away from from what western cycling industry has to offer. Learn your lesson and move forward.

 

[saneagle]

The comments regarding the small battery are interesting. I always thought the Mahle X35 battery to be a decent size. 1; because I find the bike heavy, I was assuming partly due to the "large" battery, and 2; because most of my rides are about 30 miles and I only use 15 to 20% of the battery. I guess I am use to a small battery because I also have a converted hybrid bike with a Swytch kit fitted with a 5.2ah battery and again I have no problem with the range it provides. The Orbea feels heavier than the converted hybrid, although I haven't actually weighed them, which I thought was because of the larger battery. Incidentally, I have been very pleased with the Swytch kit, it is older than the Orbea, and have even thought about fitting the battery and sensor to the Orbea and connecting to the X35 wheel!

You don't go by what things feel like. It's physics and there are equasions.

In simple terms, your battery is 248wh. A typical Bosch battery is either 500wh or 600wh. Your one therefore has to give the same power from half as much battery, which means it has double the stress. QED.

 

[Az.]

It is not only about batteries. There is a whole system with inbuilt obsolescence designed specifically to drain money from customer. Hypocrisy and greed.

 

[esuark]

It is not only about batteries. There is a whole system with inbuilt obsolescence designed specifically to drain money from customer. Hypocrisy and greed.

Once bitten twice shy, surely. Unfortunate to learn the hard way.
I count myself "lucky" I came to this website 3 months before I bought anything and in that time I learnt a lot from the long term members here and those as unfortunate as the op.

 

[PJ53YYY]

Ok I see now, as advised above, the Mahle X35 battery capacity is 248wh, the Swytch is 187wh. I find these fine for my rides. I think on the x35 I set the assistance for level 1 at 30% (I usually stay in level 1 unless on a really steep hill), on the Swytch I usually only engage the motor on hills. I could get at least 3 rides out of the X35 without recharging and I get a couple out of the Swytch. I am firstly a cyclist and now I am over 70, I like the motor assistance to stop me running out of puff on hills.

 

[Nealh]

Battery life depends on how they are specced to cope with the controller max discharge rating and the cells used.
I have a pair of Woosh Dolphin cased Sam 29E's both coming up to 10 years old and both still work well drawing approx. 4 - 5 a, they are no longer used in EAPC use but provide good power for other projects I use them for.

 

[Az.]

I think it would be more helpful if you shared what you wrote in first post with your friends and family. Here it is a common knowledge.

 

[saneagle]

Ok I see now, as advised above, the Mahle X35 battery capacity is 248wh, the Swytch is 187wh. I find these fine for my rides. I think on the x35 I set the assistance for level 1 at 30% (I usually stay in level 1 unless on a really steep hill), on the Swytch I usually only engage the motor on hills. I could get at least 3 rides out of the X35 without recharging and I get a couple out of the Swytch. I am firstly a cyclist and now I am over 70, I like the motor assistance to stop me running out of puff on hills.

You didn't by any chance try to "prolong your battery life" by not fully charging it did you?

 

[PJ53YYY]

When charging the X35 battery I always charged it to full.