Voltage query

[flecc]

Thank you for the clarification. If the BEBA is successful, many currently compliant bikes will be out of date. I wonder if after maket companies will emerge with conversions for 350 motor systems. Would this change require a change to the battery output or controller characteristics?

It's fairly likely that they won't be successful, our Department of Transport and our legislators in general are inclined to be very restrictive, for example our 14 years lower age limit which other EU countries don't have. Even our assist speed limit was 12 mph before realigning with EU law increased it.

However, if they are successful, in many cases a controller change would be enough to give the higher rating, since hub motors in particular are often made to be rated at 350 watts for the USA and 250 watts for the EU.
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[aussiejeff]

It's fairly likely that they won't be successful, our Department of Transport and our legislators in general are inclined to be very restrictive, for example our 14 years lower age limit which other EU countries don't have. Even our assist speed limit was 12 mph before realigning with EU law increased it.

However, if they are successful, in many cases a controller change would be enough to give the higher rating, since hub motors in particular are often made to be rated at 350 watts for the USA and 250 watts for the EU.
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Perhaps they will reintroduce a modified "flagman" rule, so that anyone wanting to ride a pedelec faster than 12mph shall have a runner out front waving a red flag and hollering "Danger, danger!"

LOL

Nice to be living in the Oz countryside and riding near deserted back roads with nary a cycle copper in sight...

 

[flecc]

Nice to be living in the Oz countryside and riding near deserted back roads with nary a cycle copper in sight...

Fortunately our UK police seem blissfully unaware of the law on e-bikes, so the regulations don't present any practical difficulties. Like you, we are still blighted with a 200 watt limit, but ours is to change to 250 watts in the next year or so and I understand that's the intention in Oz as well.
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[aussiejeff]

Fortunately our UK police seem blissfully unaware of the law on e-bikes, so the regulations don't present any practical difficulties. Like you, we are still blighted with a 200 watt limit, but ours is to change to 250 watts in the next year or so and I understand that's the intention in Oz as well.
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We hope....

RTA changes could be boost for electric bikes
KELSEY MUNRO URBAN AFFAIRS
April 27, 2010

ELECTRIC bikes could be the answer to traffic congestion, the obesity crisis and our carbon footprint. But over-regulation and a cycling culture that looks down on battery-assisted bikes as "cheating" have slowed their take-up in Australia, enthusiasts say.

However, changes proposed by the RTA could allow more powerful models on our roads.

The bikes do not need to be registered as long as their maximum power is 200 watts or less. But some models can have throttle control and resemble mopeds, with users being booked for riding them without registration.

''The beauty of this is people who are way past riding a bike can suddenly ride again. It integrates casual exercise into people's daily lives,'' says Mike Rubbo, 71, a filmmaker and e-bike enthusiast who runs the blog situp-cycle.com. ''It's the ideal urban transport vehicle.''

Overseas, e-bikes with up to 1000-watt motors are permitted in some jurisdictions. European e-bikes are typically 250 watts. In response to a growing push to allow e-bikes without registration to be used in Australia, the RTA has submitted a report to the federal government proposing changes to regulations.

"Times have changed and bikes have changed so they need to bring the law into line with Europe, which is what they're proposing," said Paul van Bellen, co-owner of Gazelle Bicycles Australia, a "bikes for transport" shop in Matraville.

Lord Tony Berkeley, a Labour peer who is secretary of Britain's all-party parliamentary cycling group, said while visiting Sydney last week that European studies had established a link between lower levels of obesity and a higher take-up of cycling. People of all ages can ride, he said. "I'm sure the lycra brigade love it, too, but my objective is to get from A to B wearing a suit, and make it an everyday form of transport.''

Australian Cycling Forums &bull; View topic - NSW RTA set to change electric bike <b style="color:black;background-color:#ff9999">laws</b>

The whole legal hooha by Oz authorities raving about "thou shalt not have a motor greater than 200W power - not 1W more - lest it be licensed & registered" is clearly a bad joke from the Dark Ages.

eg;

I have a teensy Bafang motor rated and stamped as 36V 200W.

Therefore, it is legal.

With absolutely NO modifications whatsoever, this teensy legal motor will output 530W uphill (allbeit not continuously)!!

Oh, then surely it MUST be illegal, since it is outputting 530W? Quick - CALL THE COPS!!!

Yep, the lawyers must be cacking themselves over this sick joke.

Will sanity prevail & the arbitrary 200W "limit" be updated to a more realistic 350W-500W 35kph limit, thus opening up the country to more international pedelec tourists and encouraging vastly more people out of their cars?

I doubt it. Legislators aren't that smart.

I'm nearlyy 60 but I'm certain I'll be pushing up daisies before authorities in Oz ever see sense. In the meantime, I'll keep riding my 200W stamped legal stealth Bafang with extra V juice.

Go figure!

 

[flecc]

Same here, my motor is like yours, pumping out the same, it's probably the same Bafang motor. We'd like the 350 watts in law too, but even less chance here since we are always going to be tied to Europe.

Of course your neighbours in NZ are lucky enough to have a 300 watt limit, no idea why they picked that though, I don't know of any off the shelf 300 watt rated motors.
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[clckn2000]

A Convert - perhaps

My daughter, 35 years old going on 18, had a ride on the Cyclamatic and declared it a cheats way of cycling. Then with a smile and a wave,disappeared for 20 minutes leaving me to babysit her 3 year old who was happy to race up and down the close on his Bob The Builder stabilised bike. Will she or won't she go for a pedelec? I guess not. She is too fond of her 180 hp Golf. Still, at least she had a go.

Some mods in the pipeline. A suspension seat post with a better tailored saddle. A new set of forks that will take a cable activated disc brake and have variable spring and damping rates (this will probabely cost as much as the bike). And a better rear mudguard that starts just behind the bottom bracket and extends out over the rear wheel. The battery is getting a bit mucky.

As far as the bike itself is concerned, a higher spec model should include a better front end as mentioned above and a power bleed off point to support lights and perhaps a phone charger (well perhaps not a phone charger). Accessories would include a rear carrier which would support panniers and a small seat bag to put little items such as glasses (optical) and a phone in.

The bike has been with me for about 3 weeks and it has proved truly liberating. I cycle to places I wouldn't have bothered to before and enjoyed the experience much better than when I struggled on my GT mountain bike, although I still use a Falcon road bike for exercise.

 

[Leesome]

One reason for the choice of voltages 200w allow those who have already a battery fit the motor. And higher voltage the larger guage of wire within motor, that equates ability allow hotter internal temps; drive motor harder longer.

1000watt 48volt Conhis on 40ah battery. Over 60 miles without charge.
750watt 36volt Conhis on 20ah battery. Over thirty miles without charge.
All on full throttle.

 

[aussiejeff]

Somewhere down the track I am thinking of getting a Kelly controller so I can run my setup at a constant 48V with 18A max available for short bursts up hills. I believe I could serial two 37V batts for this purpose, as the 48V Kelly is rated up to 90V input with adjustable V/A output within limits.

Also, I have read most modders who have tried overvolting the low watt Bafang brushless motors seem to think short bursts up to 1000KW are ok in suitable conditions - so I am hoping my theoretical max of 864W with the Kelly setup should be ok .

However, cost of the Kelly 48V controller will be about $200AUS, so have to save some pennies first!

In the meantime, the 7.2V booster is just the ticket.

Cheers,

aj

UPDATE

Since that post, I notice Kelly have a whole new range of brushless controllers on their website - including this little beauty for a measly $79US!! Kelly Controls, LLC. This model looks perfect for a 36V-48V boosted system with 200-300W brushless motors. Their whole range of small / medium controllers seems much better value now? Hub & Wheel Motor Controller | Lithium-Ion Battery Charger

Since my last post i have managed to reconfigure my setup and battery mounting so that i can have 1 x 36V10AH Headway LiFePo4 + 1 x 36V 14AH Lipo (parallelled together) + 1 x 7.2V18AH NimH custom pack (in series).

I'm really chuffed with how this setup worked on my first 24km test circuit ride the other day, compared to previous setup of a single 36V battery + 7.2V booster pack.

Now, I can pull 600W (peak) up the final hill near the end of my ride at 14.5A max with only slight voltage sag & mild warming of the Bafang 200W (15C air temp).

Comparison -

Previous (7.2V 18AH + EVS 36V 14AH Lipo)
Pack Start - 50.3V (41.6V Lipo, 8.7V NiMh)
Pack End - 45.2V (Vdrop = 5.1V)
Pack Low Volts - 42.4V (Max Vsag = 7.9V)

Previous (7.2V 18AH + EVS 36V 14AH Lipo + 36V 10AH LiFePo4)
Pack Start - 50.1V (41.5V Lipo, 41.7V LiFePo4, 8.5V NiMh)
Pack End - 47.4V (Vdrop = 3.0V; 39.6V Lipo, 39.8V LiFePo4, 7.7V NiMh)
Pack Low Volts - 46.8V (Max Vsag = 3.3V)

Well as you can see, that is a *huge* difference in e-bike terms, and my bike now feels almost as "peppy" at the finish as at the start and can still provide assist up to 35kph (37kph at start)... wunderbar for the miracle of paralleling the mains! Previously the assist would be down to around 32.5kph for that same ride. The difference (benefit) over 50-60km will be even greater. WHkm has only gone up from 7.7 - 8.5, with total WH for the trip (203) only slightly more than previous (185), since the ride didn't take as long

Not only that, but the total riding range is greatly extended. I would now be confident of getting 80km without stressing the packs.

Even though I have mixed chemistries in the 36V parallel pack, they both finish within .2V of each other (the Headway pack slightly higher than the Lipo). They balance out when riding and the fact that the mains are now having up to 50% less current drawn from each battery should be a godsend to their future longevity.

That Kelly programmable controller looks mighty inviting at that lowly price too! It would be great to be able to dial in current / torque / max volt limits etc to suit ambient ride conditions (ie - less power for hot days, crank it a bit more for cold ones...)

Well, hopefully the rain will clear shortly so I can head off on a 48K test ride. All going well, a 60km+ after that.

Cheers,


aj

 

[aussiejeff]

Here's a few piccies of my Jamison Dakar "monster". Well, I AM 6'6"

7.2V boost pack is in left pannier position, tools etc in the right pocket. Headway 36V 10AH pack in bag on top of bike rack, 36V 14AH Lipo sits snug in custom holder on frame. Cycle Analyst on handlebars.

Tyres are Serfas Drifter 26 x 2.0" @ 70PSI front, 80PSI rear (these tyres have some built in puncture resistance), with additional thorn resistant tubes + Mr Tuffy liners. *Almost* bomb-proof I previously had Specialized Armadillos 26 x 1.5" - ride was a bit too harsh for me at 85psi plus the much smaller circumference I found was reducing my top cruising speed by 2-3kph! The Drifters are much more comfortable on the road & trail and can handle the extra 4.5kg battery weight better too. I COULD gain a further 3kph by fitting some big circumference Maxxis Holy Rollers (26 x 2.4") I used to use on trails, but they are sooo prone to punctures by thorns, glass slivers etc (even the widest Mr Tuffys are too narrow) they would be too much of a PITA!

I have a bit of a dud back (old damaged disc) and found the addition of aero bars an absolute godsend on longer rides. The setup I have allows an almost infinite variety of hand grip & arm rest positions which helps to relieve pressure points. I also found my back very much appreciated my arms and shoulders taking a bit of weight from time to time as well! They are a bit fiddly to set up to the perfect angle, balance, etc for you - takes numerous adjustments and test rides to find it, but once set, they are GREAT - I can easily hold +3kph on a long ride into a 15kph headwind compared to standard situp position - what a boon.

Cheers again,



aj