Views and Advice: Winora TX2 Bosch powered 400WH direct from Germany?

[countryman663]

Accidently posted this in the wrong forum initiallyPlease forgive a newbie. Here's my question again, hopefully in the right place....

I been looking at 'mid engined' e-bikes using bosch motors for some time and have come across a few I can't get much detail on. One is the Winora T2 300WH and the TX2 400wh bikes found in germany ( weblink for details below)that can be bought for around £1900-2100 pounds dependent on T2 or TX2 spec

Winora - T2 Herren 300Wh 28Zoll 10-G Deore 13 Winora 36V Bosch silber

Does anyone have any views on these bikes. They seem well specced and presented with a tried and tested drive system that meets with some approval on this site.

They also do a 'mid engine' at lower cost powered by a 36V MIONIC unit.

Winora - F1 Herren 396Wh 28Zoll 24-G Dual Drive 13 Winora 36V Mionic

I can't find many reviews on this and would love to hear your views on these bikes, the MIONIC drive and buying direct from Germany
Thank you in anticipation of your responses and looking forward to your views

M

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Bosch is a good system. However if you want a bike from the UK we have Bosch powered models from £1699 with 300wh battery. We offer free collection in the unlikely event of a problem. Nor sure about those bikes but Bosch is a good system.

KTM has a great range of bikes at competitive prices, even compared to Germany.

Welcome to contact us if you have any questions.

KTM Electric Bikes electric bikes folding bikes

 

[countryman663]

Thank you for the response. I have looked at the KTM Bosch Macina Cross but for the same price, around £1700, the winora seems to have a higher spec and seems very closely related
(cloned? same company?) to the Hiabike EQ trekking


I was wondering about the companies presence in this country and their reputation overall but would prefer to buy locally (local shops for local people..very league of gentlemen)
I have tried a gepida Berig recently and was impressed with the build etc at around this price mark but found that no front suspension was a bit harsh for the rural roads here in Cumbria.
Keep the advice coming however as I am open minded about which crank drive bike i choose, that is of the same ilk as those mentioned here and, things like the Jarifa Cross Tour in the 1700 to 2000 range.
thanks again

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Most of the KTM range with the Bosch system have hub gears (except race and one other model). So I would first decide whether you want a bike with hub gears or deraillleur gears.

We also stock AVE these are nice bikes but have 2012 Bosch system on them at the moment. KTM Macina Cross is hard to beat for value as for £1899 you can have the 400wh battery and the bike has suspension. Would be prepared to sell our current model for £1799 (51cm, roadster frame).
Macina HS is also a great bike, it has hub and derailleur gears (SRAM Dual Drive)

DUALDRIVE 24 | SRAM

 

[countryman663]

Most of the KTM range with the Bosch system have hub gears (except race and one other model). So I would first decide whether you want a bike with hub gears or deraillleur gears.

We also stock AVE these are nice bikes but have 2012 Bosch system on them at the moment. KTM Macina Cross is hard to beat for value as for £1899 you can have the 400wh battery and the bike has suspension. Would be prepared to sell our current model for £1799 (51cm, roadster frame).
Macina HS is also a great bike, it has hub and derailleur gears (SRAM Dual Drive)

DUALDRIVE 24 | SRAM

...but doesn't have the useful rural commute additions of discs, rack, lights and cowpat guards!

I think I would prefer a derailleur system having read some posts here about hubs and Bosch but mainly because its on the outside and repairable/replace-able with my current know how. happy to learn more about the hub "dual drive" however if you care to enlighten me. ( I must also point out that when I searched for a picture of the Macina Cross I came up with one at £1700 from e-motion in Swindon!?)

 

[Artstu]

and cowpat guards!

The guards don't look that good from the photos, being what looks like just a strip. I rather like my rim brakes, I like the idea of discs, but know they can be a bit of a faff at times.

 

[countryman663]

The guards don't look that good from the photos, being what looks like just a strip. I rather like my rim brakes, I like the idea of discs, but know they can be a bit of a faff at times.

View attachment 5493

Every time I put in Macina Cross i get this and not the one you have shown me.



so where is yours from and what is the full model name
thanks
M

 

[Artstu]

Mine is this one

I've added SKS guards and a nice rack from Wiggle, total cost just under £50. I've only had the bike a few days. Bear in mind the quotes above from Dave are for the 400 wh battery which is £200 more expensive than the 300 wh one which I have.

I'm really pleased with the bike so far and think it looks grear with the rack and guards. Those bikes you're looking at look really good too, I'd certainly consider one.

After getting used to a Nexus 8-speed hub I thought I'd have another. It does limit the bosch power to 200% as opposed to the 250% of the derailleur versions, although I'm not sure where the Sram dual-drive fits in being both hub-geared and derailleur.

Mine is plenty powerful enough, I guess the 250% would get through the battery even quicker though. If you ride more than 25 very hilly miles I'd certainly suggest the 400 wh battery. It's early days for me yet, so I'm second guessing the range a bit.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I like the idea of discs, but know they can be a bit of a faff at times.

What faffing about do you have in mind?

There's much less adjustment needed on disk brakes than rim brakes. Hydraulic ones are self-adjusting, so set and forget.

I've just had to change the pads for the third time in about 1000 miles in my Diamondback with rim brakes. I've never yet had to do change any pads in disc brakes on bikes with more than twice that distance. Neither have I ever had to make any adjustment to cable disc brakes after initial setting up other than a couple of turns on the cable adjuster.

One other point about cable disc brakes: I would say that about 70% of the ones I see on new bikes are not set properly. As part of the assembly or PDI, there should be a simple centering procedure carried out, but nobody seems to do it. If you can see the disk bend/move sideways when you apply the brake, it needs setting.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

d8veh makes a good point regarding rim brakes however the hydraulic Magura brakes are well thought of bike people like David Hendshaw from A to B. I know the Macina HS with dual drive went down well in hilly Wales. Derailleur's are more efficient when well maintained but hub gears are lower maintenance. So it really depends what on your personal preference is.

 

[Artstu]

What faffing about do you have in mind?

I maintain a friends bike with Shimano cable disc brakes, it gets through pads very quickly, it also needs adjusting quite regularly, both cable adjustment and inner pad balance, and they're difficult to get the adjustment just so, so that they don't drag and have a nice tight lever reach.

I have no doubt hydraulic ones would improve matters. So yes sorry I should have said "my friends cheap cable discs are a bit of a faff"

Pads are also expensive. However after saying all that I imagine v-brakes in the type of conditions she rides would be even more of a faff.

 

[103Alex1]

Have to admit, hydraulic or not my Magura rim brakes need adjusting a lot. Every time the rear wheel is set and chain tension tuned in fact (which is pretty often - about once a week to allow it to be ridden to extract all the performance available (!) ). Hoping to get some longer lasting setup which accommodates my riding style more readily .

The hydraulic discs on the other bike need virtually nothing but too early to say how long the pads will last as just changed them since buying 2nd hand (no more than 150 miles on the ones which came with the bike - but they were probably clapped when I bought it). It's only been about £5 a pair for pads with recent discounts so can't complain really.

 

[Artstu]

Have to admit, hydraulic or not my Magura rim brakes need adjusting a lot. Every time the rear wheel is set and chain tension tuned in fact (which is pretty often - about once a week to allow it to be ridden to extract all the performance available (!)

Yes My chain needs adjusting already. I wish they'd put a tensioner on as standard.

 

[countryman663]

Thanks for the developing discussion folks. Can anyone fill me in on where to find out more about the MIONIC mid-drive which looks rather like an inverted Bosch unit but some how slimmer as seen in the comfort range of the Winora product list. The MIONIC part of name seems to be applied to various versions of their own drive units but I can't get much detail on just what makes it their own as they also use bosch and yamaha drive units. . Anyone seen, tried or heard about it please. I'm intrigued to know more



Some bikes also feature an "automatic gear box" they claim as a world's first. what's that then?

 

[flecc]

I think that crank unit is probably a completely new one either of their own or another maker, so it may be there's no practical information on it. In shape it looks vaguely like the unit developed by Pacific Cycles in Taiwan but I don't think it is that one.

Shimano have some hub gears that are automatic changing in 3 and 8 gear models, possibly others as well. SRAM make a two speed automatic gear change hub, so the one they mention may be any of these. They change gear as the pedalling cadence increases beyond certain points and work quite well.

 

[countryman663]

thank you. this is getting really interesting. there's much more to this than I thought

 

[Taff]

thank you. this is getting really interesting. there's much more to this than I thought
View attachment 5501

There certainly is.
It's one of those areas that the more you know, the more you learn you don't know. So you learn some more, then you know more... repeat this iteration as many times as you like.

 

[countryman663]

There certainly is.
It's one of those areas that the more you know, the more you learn you don't know. So you learn some more, then you know more... repeat this iteration as many times as you like.

I know the feeling well