Used Yamaha or Bosch?

[TJC]

Hi everyone,

Im looking at getting a new bike. I had been looking at full suspension bikes such as Calibre Bossnut, Voodoo Canzo etc but noticed used full suspension EMTBs could be had from about £1500. For only a few hundred more these appeal to me.

I’ve done quite a lot of research. For my budget (1500-2000) it looks like mainly 2015-2017 bikes with Yamaha or Bosch motors. For these years what was the better system? The Yamaha with more gears appeals to me but does this actually make a difference on an ebike? The Yamaha assistance apparently is more responsive but the RPM range is more limited. To me the Yamaha system seems better but in real use is there much between them?

I’ve found one that has recently had a new battery fitted. At the top end of my budget but looking at the price of batteries this would be better value than one at say £1500-1600 with an old battery?

I’ve mainly been looking at Scott and Haibike. Also seen some Trek and Giant. If anyone here is selling something I might be interested in feel free to message me.

 

[GLJoe]

I’ve done quite a lot of research. For my budget (1500-2000) it looks like mainly 2015-2017 bikes with Yamaha or Bosch motors. For these years what was the better system? The Yamaha with more gears appeals to me but does this actually make a difference on an ebike? The Yamaha assistance apparently is more responsive but the RPM range is more limited. To me the Yamaha system seems better but in real use is there much between them?

In this day and age of no bargains out there, I'd be wary of a decent make full suspension ebike being sold second hand for around the £1500. You want to check that its hasn't been hammered to within an inch of its life!

That said, if you do find one, then as to which one, Bosch or yamaha - well it depends.
As you've noted, the cadence limit on the Yamaha PW motor could be a problem if you like to spin, especially with MTB where you often need short sharp bursts to get up the steep bits. PWX is better for this. If you're a grinder, then its not an issue.
Bosch CX doesn't have that cadence problem.
If the battery is old and needs replacing, then the genuine Yamaha batteries are hideously expensive, BUT you can get 3rd party replacements for half the cost of a Bosch OEM one (and there currently aren't any 3rd party Bosch ones)

Both motors are decently 'strong'.
I'm tempted to say the Yamaha system might be the more reliable, but that could just be that there aren't many bad stories out there simply as the numbers sold are less than Bosch.

I doubt having a double chainring on the front for the Yamaha makes much of a difference in real life. Not for assisted MTB with a wide ratio rear cassette anyway.

 

[vfr400]

The biggest risk is the bike packing up for whatever reason. That should take considerably more consideration than the type of gears or the details of the power characteristics when buying a 5 year old electric bike with no guarantee. Anecdotally, Bosch batteries are easiest to deal with and both motors are about as reliable/unreliable as each other. Again, Bosch wins on the fixability because there are more of them.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Again, Bosch wins on the fixability because there are more of them.

That certainly seemed the case pre-Brexit, although a pain having to send your motor back to Germany and await a diagnosis/repair/replacement.

But what happens now post-Brexit? Can you still easily ship your knackered motor across the water? Notwithstanding any delays waiting for Bosch deciding whether your motor is fixable or covered by warranty, how do the new Customs/Tax/Handling/Shipping arrangements work now?

 

[vfr400]

That certainly seemed the case pre-Brexit, although a pain having to send your motor back to Germany and await a diagnosis/repair/replacement.

But what happens now post-Brexit? Can you still easily ship your knackered motor across the water? Notwithstanding any delays waiting for Bosch deciding whether your motor is fixable or covered by warranty, how do the new Customs/Tax/Handling/Shipping arrangements work now?

Who's ever sent a motor back to Germany? Most people would go to:

The home of ebike motor parts -

Spare parts, bearings and repair service for most common ebike motors

www.performancelinebearings.com

 

[soundwave]

if you have any warranty left the shop where you bought the bike will do a warranty replacement via magura as thats who deal with warranty replacements for bosch so can take a week or a lot more now as has to go back to the eu.

like apple ect dealers can not keep spare motors in stock for warranty replacment so all have to go back.

peter can not work on motors with any warranty left even tho he is a bosch dealer none of them can open a motor under warranty even if it needs a £5 bearing!

any bosch dealer can do a warranty replacement even tho you never got the bike from them but most will just say no and say warranty is not transferable but pcg in Germany will do it but you will need to pay the postage there and back.

If the e-bike is not yet 2 years old, we can also handle the guarantee.

Antriebseinheit Active 25 km/h - Pro-Cycling-Golla

Antriebseinheit Active 25 km/h -

www.pro-cycling-golla.de

 

[vfr400]

if you have any warranty left the shop where you bought the bike will do a warranty replacement via magura as thats who deal with warranty replacements for bosch so can take a week or a lot more now as has to go back to the eu.

like apple ect dealers can not keep spare motors in stock for warranty replacment so all have to go back.

peter can not work on motors with any warranty left even tho he is a bosch dealer none of them can open a motor under warranty even if it needs a £5 bearing!

any bosch dealer can do a warranty replacement even tho you never got the bike from them but most will just say no and say warranty is not transferable but pcg in Germany will do it but you will need to pay the postage there and back.

If the e-bike is not yet 2 years old, we can also handle the guarantee.

Antriebseinheit Active 25 km/h - Pro-Cycling-Golla

Antriebseinheit Active 25 km/h -

www.pro-cycling-golla.de

The Magura service centre is in the UK. I did my Bosch training there. What they do with the Bosch motors shouldn't be of any interest for us. You take your Bosch bike back to the dealer. the dealer sends the motor to the Magura service centre. Magura send a replacement motor to the dealer. The dealer fits the motor and gives it back to you.

There's no reason why Magura can't stock replacement motors. I remember discussing it with the guy about 4 years ago after he agreed that the turn around times for individual motors were too long.

That's all for warranty work. We're talking about what you do with a 5 year old used bike, which is what OP wants to buy.

 

[soundwave]

That's all for warranty work. We're talking about what you do with a 5 year old used bike, which is what OP wants to buy.

send the motor to peter and send the batt to jimmy that's pretty much your only option out of warranty with a bike that old but its all about how it is looked after.

 

[georgehenry]

I am not sure I would buy any out of warranty Bosch or Yamaha system bike as there is no support at all from the manufacturer or dealerships.

So if something goes wrong with the motor or battery or anything else you need to be able to fix it yourself or find a third party who can.

That is a shame as I have a 2015 Haibike with Yamaha PW motor that has been brilliant and is now beginning its 7th year of service and has completed 13,168 miles, and my original battery is still working very well. So for me I am getting good value from my £1,750 new price.

I got it from a big dealership who offered me very good support.

However I had to fix my own battery/charger connectors when they broke as there was no support for that problem either on day one or whenever down the road if they break.

I was however given a new motor right at the end of my warranty when the bearings developed play, probably from water ingress from washing rather than riding the bike. Keep water away from the bearings.

I have been careful to keep water away from the bearings on my second motor and it continues to work well after 7,168 miles.

At the big dealership I bought my bike from one of the mechanics told me that from that era they had many more motor problems with Bosch than Yamaha.

As Soundwave found who bought his bike second hand but originally from the same bike shop where I bought my bike, that dealership will not sell you spare parts unless you bought the bike from them.

 

[TJC]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I was looking nearer the top end of my budget really. I’ve seen some even below £1500 but they are very early models. Not being in warranty doesn’t particularly put me off. I’m happy to put work into repairs etc. If I enjoy the bike I may even upgrade to a new/newer model after a year or so. I’m just not willing to put that sort of money down at this stage. I’m now considering waiting till the market has settled a bit as demand seems to be very high currently.

Sounds like in use their isn’t much between a PW-X or Bosch. The cheaper repair/parts price of Yamaha is a positive. Is it possible to re-cell the batteries? I’ve done this myself before for other things.

 

[soundwave]

if the bms is working and charging then it can be recelled but it is not a easy job to do.

The home of ebike motor parts -

Spare parts, bearings and repair service for most common ebike motors

www.performancelinebearings.com

eBike Batteries

ebikebatteries.co.uk

if a bms or the controller board inside the motor is broken there is no way to repair them and they dont sell them to anyone not even dealers!

peter has a lot of spare bosch motor parts gen2 so a lot more chance of getting it going again as dont see many Yamaha motor bikes on here same as brose motors.