Urgent Help re electric bike law.

[tillson]

Putting the law to one side for a moment, there is a moral question here. If the sale was made as a result of the buyer responding to an advert which gave no suggestion that the bike was legal to use on a road / public place, then I would say that its their tough luck and that they should have made appropriate enquiries before buying.

By, "no suggestion that the bike was legal to use" I mean an implied suggestion that it was legal. For example, for the seller to say that he had been using it on a road, saying that it would be ideal for the 15 year old to use, or that the bike is a good low cost means of transport would be an implied suggestion that it was legal. Although under these circumstances it would be hard, if not impossible, for the purchaser to take any legal action, I think there is a moral question as a novice buyer might not be fortunate enough to have the depth of knowledge which we have. I think I'd be inclined to give them their money back if I'd sold it under such circumstances. But, as I have said, if they had bought it from a very simple, electrically powered bike for sale advert, then I think they have to live with their decision to buy.

 

[morphix]

Putting the law to one side for a moment, there is a moral question here. If the sale was made as a result of the buyer responding to an advert which gave no suggestion that the bike was legal to use on a road / public place, then I would say that its their tough luck and that they should have made appropriate enquiries before buying.

By, "no suggestion that the bike was legal to use" I mean an implied suggestion that it was legal. For example, for the seller to say that he had been using it on a road, saying that it would be ideal for the 15 year old to use, or that the bike is a good low cost means of transport would be an implied suggestion that it was legal. Although under these circumstances it would be hard, if not impossible, for the purchaser to take any legal action, I think there is a moral question as a novice buyer might not be fortunate enough to have the depth of knowledge which we have. I think I'd be inclined to give them their money back if I'd sold it under such circumstances. But, as I have said, if they had bought it from a very simple, electrically powered bike for sale advert, then I think they have to live with their decision to buy.

I agree tillson, definitely a moral issue this one. The law as we know is at the very least ambiguous when it comes to legality of bikes..something that is CLEARLY illegal though or likely to attract the attention of the old bill, I think the seller has a moral duty to point this out and tell the novice buyer the potential risk they're taking if they ride it on the road. You might lose the sale, but better than landing someone in trouble or someone suing you later.

 

[Jeremy]

The law takes into account the "good faith" argument here, though. If the seller, at the time of making the sale, believed that what they were selling was legal, and had no reasonable grounds for believing otherwise, then he/she acted in good faith. There was no intent to mislead, and so there is no case for any action to be brought, civil or criminal.

We all understand now how messy the legal position is surrounding the use of ebikes in the UK. It is clear from recent discussions here that there was been a great deal of misinformation about legality that has spread, without malice in the main, throughout the UK ebike world. It is therefore completely understandable that someone could mistakenly describe an ebike as being fully legal, believing themselves that it was at that time.

Reading this thread I don't believe there was any intent to mislead, so no moral case against the seller. This looks to be one of those unfortunate cases where the law has caught up with a purchaser as a consequence of the messy situation we are in legally. I strongly suspect there will be more cases like this as the police become more aware of the situation, particularly for ebikes that are really thinly disguised motor scooters.

 

[morphix]

The law takes into account the "good faith" argument here, though. If the seller, at the time of making the sale, believed that what they were selling was legal, and had no reasonable grounds for believing otherwise, then he/she acted in good faith. There was no intent to mislead, and so there is no case for any action to be brought, civil or criminal.

We all understand now how messy the legal position is surrounding the use of ebikes in the UK. It is clear from recent discussions here that there was been a great deal of misinformation about legality that has spread, without malice in the main, throughout the UK ebike world. It is therefore completely understandable that someone could mistakenly describe an ebike as being fully legal, believing themselves that it was at that time.

Reading this thread I don't believe there was any intent to mislead, so no moral case against the seller. This looks to be one of those unfortunate cases where the law has caught up with a purchaser as a consequence of the messy situation we are in legally. I strongly suspect there will be more cases like this as the police become more aware of the situation, particularly for ebikes that are really thinly disguised motor scooters.

Agreed. Just unfortunate for the buyer and if the law was clearer this wouldn't have happened in most likelihood. I agree with your last point too that more cases are likely.. definitely wouldn't recommend anyone buying one of those scooter ebikes unless its for use on private land.