Urban Mover UK - Rubbish Customer Service!

[jonathan75]

To add to this long list of complains. I am leaving in Switzerland and I bought for my UM 44 a replacement battery (as mine died suddenly and without good reason after just more than 1 years...). I sent a mail to UM , received back from Mr Keith C. in 24 hours a request to pay via Paypal the battery price + shipping fees. I paid right away, it was effectively debited and guess what ? Since then no news, no response to my countless number of emails , no way to get this guys on the phone at +441242254540, their unique phone number worldwide, no response to my numerous voice mail, .. At this point I am not sure what to do to get my battery finally delivered.
My question to whoever could help oes anyone has news recently from this company. Is it still existing ? Should I lodge a complaints to the local police department (Cheltenham) ? I am looking for any information. Thanks

First of all you have an arguable claim for a free replacement, part-refund, or repair of the battery concerned (at the discretion of the retailer), as your contract with the retailer was formed chiefly by the English and EU law requirement that consumer goods be reasonably durable, commensurate with their price, irrespective of any 'guarantee'.

Secondly you have an uncontestable claim for a return of your monies paid for the second battery. Your claim is good for a minimum of six years (from what date point I'm not sure), provided the company you paid still exists.

Before making a claim you have to write to the company you paid (with a record from the post office of the letter being sent, not received), explaining your anger, inviting them to help, and explaining that they owe you these things under English law, and that if they do not get in touch within say 7 or 14 days then you will have no choice to make a claim against them, and hold them liable for your costs of making the claim as well.

If they do not pay, I can try to find out how you make a legal claim against them from Switzerland. I believe it is quite easy and cheap, and it definitely does not require a lawyer.

Regarding your question about police, you should not call the police, you should instead report this to Gloucester Trading Standards by writing them a letter at their physical address at http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/glos/contactus.htm although I think their job is to frighten bad businessmen rather than to get your money back (although sometimes their involvement prompts the retailer to give the money back anyway).

 

[flecc]

I've done some further digging and it appears Urban Mover now have no connection with Hero Eco, only the Ultra Motor brand A2B remains with them. I've no idea when there was separation but clearly the A2B and F4W contacts are not worth pursuing now.

I did have a new Urban Mover service and parts telephone number issued after the original takeover of Ultra Motor by Hero Eco, but having just tried it I've found it's now disconnected.

Unfortunately it seems you now only have the Urban Mover contact point details you've given.
.

 

[JohnCade]

I think you have sixty days to claim a Paypal refund, though it might be longer for goods which fail to arrive. You should start a Paypal claim today as you have only a couple of days left. I would also forget about getting back to the company because they might just string you along until it is too late.

You can always reorder it. Although since they haven’t responded to all your emails I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole.

 

[trex]

I think you can raise an issue with paypal any time within 60 days from payment date.
Suppliers using paypal agree with paypal to ship the goods within 14 days, unless you have agreed a different delivery date.

 

[jonathan75]

I think you have ninety days to claim a Paypal refund, though it might be longer for goods which fail to arrive. You should start a Paypal claim today as you have only a couple of days left. I would also forget about getting back to the company because they might just string you along until it is too late.

You can always reorder it. Although since they haven’t responded to all your emails I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole.

Without disagreeing with anything you've said, I would just add the payer is not in any way confined to PayPal's resolution system for remedies.

 

[jonathan75]

I've done some further digging and it appears Urban Mover now have no connection with Hero Eco, only the Ultra Motor brand A2B remains with them. I've no idea when there was separation but clearly the A2B and F4W contacts are not worth pursuing now.

I did have a new Urban Mover service and parts telephone number issued after the original takeover of Ultra Motor by Hero Eco, but having just tried it I've found it's now disconnected.

Unfortunately it seems you now only have the Urban Mover contact point details you've given.
.

You might be right there but I'm not sure (I apologise if I've misunderstood). Urban Mover Ltd dissolved in 2008. http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo

The OP might have paid Urbanmover.com Ltd which is currently in liquidation. The OP would need to contact the receiver/liquidator to register as a creditor - and maximise his claims i.e. make an optimistic claim about what he is owed for the first broken battery (based on 6 years' use - the other party can resist this if it chooses), as well as claim for 100% of the second payment.

But he might have paid Urban Mover Eco Ltd which isn't in liquidation.

It's important that he finds out which entity he was told he paid (or which he did pay), that seems the right starting point. Perhaps the paypal email address he paid would be the best start.

 

[JohnCade]

I think you can raise an issue with paypal any time within 60 days from payment date.
Suppliers using paypal agree with paypal to ship the goods within 14 days, unless you have agreed a different delivery date.

Yes trex it’s sixty days. I put ninety initially then checked and changed it. But the original came back as things do sometimes with this site’s hosting.

 

[JohnCade]

Without disagreeing with anything you've said, I would just add the payer is not in any way confined to PayPal's resolution system for remidies.

Quite agree. But it’s the best place to start. Paypal will refund you if the seller has no proof that he delivered it. Assuming the money was sent as payment for goods and wan’t sent as a gift. I would have made a claim before this though.

 

[flecc]

You might be right there but I'm not sure (I apologise if I've misunderstood). Urban Mover Ltd dissolved in 2008. http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo

But it seems replaced by Urban Mover.com in 2009, this 2009 webpage refers. Clearly both are effectively the same company since the bike range is the same UM10, UM20 and UM30 as before, only using the brand name Elite instead of Urban Mover.

Snce it was Keith Chamberlain he paid, it was to the later name company, since as you can see, he is the project director of that later company. Also the contact page on that site gives the quoted telephone number, which is also the parts phone number given by Halfords for their current Urban Mover sales.
.

It seems all roads lead to the same unsatisfactory end.
.

 

[jonathan75]

But it seems replaced by Urban Mover.com in 2009, this 2009 webpage refers. Clearly both are effectively the same company since the bike range is the same UM10, UM20 and UM30 as before, only using the brand name Elite instead of Urban Mover.

Snce it was Keith Chamberlain he paid, it was to the later name company, since as you can see, he is the project director of that later company. Also the contact page on that site gives the quoted telephone number, which is also the parts phone number given by Halfords for their current Urban Mover sales.
.

It seems all roads lead to the same unsatisfactory end.
.

I would venture that the question isn't whether Urban Mover Ltd is the same company as Urbanmover.com Ltd, because they're not. Each company is a discrete entity. In this case the practical question is whether he paid Urbanmover.com Ltd or Urban Mover Eco Ltd, because both are in different financial situations. Urbanmover.com ltd has £130k unsecured debt in excess of its assets. Urban Mover Eco Ltd only has £2k of such debt. Useful links here:

http://www.endole.co.uk/company/07997258/urban-mover-eco-ltd

http://www.endole.co.uk/company/04963014/urban-movercom-limited

Going onto the Companies House Webcheck page for Urbanmover.com, and clicking the 'insolvency history' link, it says that it went into liquidation on 20/03/13, after being in administration for a year. The OP paid for the bike shortly after after the liquidation date (I believe) and the battery a year after that (again estimate). I would be surprised if Urbanmover.com was allowed to trade without alerting its buyers that it was in liquidation - surely the liquidator/administrator would be in charge of all sales. So I think that the OP paid Urban Mover Eco Ltd, which only has £2k of excess debt currently.

What worries me is that Mr Keith Chamberlain, director of Urban Mover Eco Ltd (and its predecessors) seems to be taking money and not delivering goods. I suspect he's used customer money for purposes other than running Urban Mover Eco Ltd in a proper way (this isn't legal terminology). I believe that could make him personally liable for the money paid. I feel sorry for him because he's probably having his house sold from under him, but he seems to be taking it out on this particular customer by taking his money and ignoring him.

 

[flecc]

I agree about the companies status Jonathan, my use of "effectively" being only a reference to what they were marketing rather than any financial implications.

Seeing that urbanmover.com has also gone into administration gives me the same fears as you, but since Urban Mover Eco Ltd have supplied Halfords with new e-bikes, presumably there is some hope of a replacement battery becoming available.

I'm reminded of another case where a supplier short of cash wasn't paying the Chinese end for the last large consignment and couldn't get spares and batteries from them as a result.
.

 

[Moisson]

Hi all. Encouraging to see that this case is bringing so much attention and useful feedbacks. Thanks a lot for your precious advises and your time. To answer some of your questions, I just checked my paypal account
and I effectively paid on the 23rd Jan 2015to Urban Mover (http://www.urbanmover.com) £498.6. This is what is mentioned in my Paypal account. Now I am not sure who and which legal entity is effectively behind this URL but I would assume (naively may be) that PayPal is checking this before accepting and transferring payments from customers. To precise also something here, I am calling the unique number almost on a daily basis, and one day (about one month ago) someone picked up the phone and asked me to re send the mails, in which I was asking for an update on the delivery. Obviously no answer since then. I think best approach is to claim (if not too late) the payment from PayPal. I will keep you posted. In order to avoid this type of adventure o others, I will also advertise Urban Mover's aftersales more extensively. Would you know another platform than this foum , happy to use it. Kind Regards

 

[flecc]

It seems then that the payment went to the company that went into administration almost exactly two years ago, so a PayPal claim is the best course now.
.

 

[JohnCade]

You should do it immediately. You may already be too late.

 

[Kudoscycles]

There seems to be varying directions that the Chinese manufactured bikes are heading. There are the cheapies,these are old technology and old pricing structure-in China the majority of the suppliers are still in this category,they find it easy to make the same bikes without any innovation or parts upgrade-I walk the Shanghai show and 70 per cent of the booths have these bikes,most are sold cheap into Holland and Belgium,they are often step thru's.
There are a few booths where the manufacturers are trying to innovate,the bikes tend to use higher quality parts with an obvious price hike-understand not expensive but priced away from the cheapies,these bikes tend to be sold into Germany and Eastern Europe,usually rebadged to disguise their origins.
Despite so much knowledge about quality and hill climbing ability,weight,style being communicated by such as this forum, the majority of UK customers are still price driven and the cheapies are the majority of sales...it's a shame because so often the cheapie bike doesn't do what a customer thinks it should and the e-bike is left to rust in the shed or its so unreliable that all e-bikes get 'tarred with the same brush'
We see so many bikes bought into our London Shop,they are all the classic cheapies-' it won't go,the supplier has disappeared,I am fed up with it,can you fix it,what do I do with it' it's tempting to tell them the best place for their pile of rust,mustn't be rude,
The Chinese have a not too complimentary name for the gullible newbie entrepreneur,they stitch him up with a cheap pile of the cheapest bits and stuff 60 in a 20 foot container,no spares,no thought of after sales service,no worries the guy won't be back. Unfortunately the British consumer is ultimately the fall guy 6 months later. Anyone who has been on this forum for some time knows the names of all these cheapies,it doesn't do the reputation of the e-bike market much good.
Please understand that this is a general comment not directly related to the Urban Mover product of which I have no knowledge,it probably should have had its own thread but it seemed appropriate to the poor customer service experienced by the OP.
KudosDave

 

[RobF]

There seems to be varying directions that the Chinese manufactured bikes are heading. There are the cheapies,these are old technology and old pricing structure-in China the majority of the suppliers are still in this category,they find it easy to make the same bikes without any innovation or parts upgrade-I walk the Shanghai show and 70 per cent of the booths have these bikes,most are sold cheap into Holland and Belgium,they are often step thru's.
There are a few booths where the manufacturers are trying to innovate,the bikes tend to use higher quality parts with an obvious price hike-understand not expensive but priced away from the cheapies,these bikes tend to be sold into Germany and Eastern Europe,usually rebadged to disguise their origins.
Despite so much knowledge about quality and hill climbing ability,weight,style being communicated by such as this forum, the majority of UK customers are still price driven and the cheapies are the majority of sales...it's a shame because so often the cheapie bike doesn't do what a customer thinks it should and the e-bike is left to rust in the shed or its so unreliable that all e-bikes get 'tarred with the same brush'
We see so many bikes bought into our London Shop,they are all the classic cheapies-' it won't go,the supplier has disappeared,I am fed up with it,can you fix it,what do I do with it' it's tempting to tell them the best place for their pile of rust,mustn't be rude,
The Chinese have a not too complimentary name for the gullible newbie entrepreneur,they stitch him up with a cheap pile of the cheapest bits and stuff 60 in a 20 foot container,no spares,no thought of after sales service,no worries the guy won't be back. Unfortunately the British consumer is ultimately the fall guy 6 months later. Anyone who has been on this forum for some time knows the names of all these cheapies,it doesn't do the reputation of the e-bike market much good.
Please understand that this is a general comment not directly related to the Urban Mover product of which I have no knowledge,it probably should have had its own thread but it seemed appropriate to the poor customer service experienced by the OP.
KudosDave

We are our own worst enemies - even on this forum.

If I make a comment in support of a quality component or brand, I tend to be called a snob and get a lecture about poor people who have to buy cheap.

Or be told I'm a mug and could get better on ebay from China, or from alibaba - currently under investigation for the supply of counterfeit goods.

Forty thieves? More like 40,000.

I've seen some of the shameful contraptions of which Dave speaks being wheeled into my local bike shop.

Hard to sympathise with the customer who has scoured the net and bought purely on price, and then wants the local lads to sort it for buttons.

But it is such a shame, because for just a few hundred more they could have got something half decent.

Mamils have been much criticised, but at least they are prepared to spend a few quid on a quality bike and accessories.

Too many people start with the notion a bike is something you should get for a tenner from a car boot sale.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Rob....you said it so well... I suppose I am a bit frustrated that a couple of my new bikes were designed as a result of all the criteria that was requested by forum members.
These bikes sell well to the population of London but are pretty much ignored by the one forum that asked for the features of those bikes.
Forum members should understand that the cheap bikes you often see cheap on the Internet are ex China for less than 300 US dollars,most chinese manufacturers allow 50 US dollars to assemble and make a profit so the rest of the bike has to be sourced for 250 U.S. dollars,about £170.00-it's very hard to get quality parts at that price level.
We shouldn't be surprised that we get what we pay for.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

How are you so sure that Moisson bought on price?
He paid £500 for a 26V 9AH battery that has to arrive.
If he bought his bike from one of the vendors advertising on this forum, none of this would have happened.
Here is his bike:
http://urbanmover.com/products/powerAssistedBikes/UM44.php

 

[RobF]

How are you so sure that Moisson bought on price?
He paid £500 for a 26V 9AH battery that has to arrive.
If he bought his bike from one of the vendors advertising on this forum, none of this would have happened.
Here is his bike:
http://urbanmover.com/products/powerAssistedBikes/UM44.php

I thought it fairly obvious Dave and I were making general comments and not in any way having a go at the OP.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't think that there's anything wrong with buying a cheap Chinese bike, but you must make sure that it has a standard battery and other parts. As soon as there's some special parts, they will cost a fortune to replace. If I had an Urban Mover UM36 with a shagged battery, I'd replace the battery with a standard bottle battery, which would be a lot better as well as a lot cheaper. You only need two wires to connect it. You could get two of them with chargers for the same price as the UM replacement one.