Update on N.I. e-bike regs.

[tommie]

For me this is an English problem not a NI problem because if the English want the kingdom to be united they should guarantee equal rights to all its citizens.

Some truth in that as Westminster should imo forced this through at the time. It wasn`t a contentious issue.

But as i said before this registration thing opens a can of worms for the future and if you read in the other EU thread where Commission discussions are taking place in Brussels this very moment on ebike registration, it`s becoming a nasty trend

And with the UK leaving you can be sure every corner of the sofa will be searched to look for extra income.

Looks ugly, don`t it??!! .... (the bike i mean!)

 

[TedG]

I asked the Foyle PSNI about using ebikes in the city and referenced the letter from the chief constable allowing officers to use discretion, although I didn't have the letter to hand, the response was that it wasn't down to the chief constable to allow officers to use discretion and that the law must be followed. It would be an interesting case if anyone would be prosecuted for cycling on a cycle path whether insured or not.
I agree that we shouldn't break out from the pack, if the general consensus is not to cooperate with this law then I'll leave the bike in the shed for another year or ten.

That was precisely the "suspicion" to which I referred earlier. Plod going out on a limb and sticking rigidly to the letter of the ludicrous law.
Ironically he would be within his rights.

 

[TedG]

Some truth in that as Westminster should imo forced this through at the time. It wasn`t a contentious issue.

But as i said before this registration thing opens a can of worms for the future and if you read in the other EU thread where Commission discussions are taking place in Brussels this very moment on ebike registration, it`s becoming a nasty trend

And with the UK leaving you can be sure every corner of the sofa will be searched to look for extra income.

Looks ugly, don`t it??!! .... (the bike i mean!)

View attachment 24922

Set up as expected. Vehicle reg belongs to a Citroen Berlingo diesel in blue.

 

[flecc]

That was precisely the "suspicion" to which I referred earlier. Plod going out on a limb and sticking rigidly to the letter of the ludicrous law.
Ironically he would be within his rights.

Ted I have an exact parallel to this.

A traffic officer in one of London's two police forces investigating an accident in which a 250 watt pedelec was involved commenced a prosecution on the basis that the law said 200 watts was the maximum rating. He was absolutely within his rights, that was the law.

The rider appealed to BEBA (British Electric Bike Association) and they contacted me, knowing my knowledge of the law. I suggested a legal technical objection to block the officer's attempt. Frustrated he appealed to his force for support and they supported him. Once again I raised a technical objection to block their move, so they then appealed to the DfT.

I was ready with a trump card in case they supported a prosecution, but in the event they saw how silly the whole trifling matter was and advised the police force to drop it.

What makes this case identical to yours is that the 200 watt position was intended to be changed to 250 watts but that had not happened due to our UK government failings.

What wasn't identical were the circumstances, since that force supported the officer. Your position is much better since your Chief Constable is on your side at the outset.
.

 

[tommie]

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=118451&p=1237377&hilit=pedelecs#p1237377

quite a bit of comment on the NI thing here, see TedG given a mention

 

[TedG]

Not really searching for a bit of cheap fame - like one lady who I could mention - but it is good to see other views regarding the complexity of this absurd law.
I have recently had a bad fall (nothing to do with bikes of any sort) so I am grounded for a while.
As I make attempts to recover, the silence from those in power (?) who once promised so much if we were patient is truly deafening.

 

[tommie]

Not really searching for a bit of cheap fame - like one lady who I could mention - but it is good to see other views regarding the complexity of this absurd law.
I have recently had a bad fall (nothing to do with bikes of any sort) so I am grounded for a while.
As I make attempts to recover, the silence from those in power (?) who once promised so much if we were patient is truly deafening.

All any of them can do is sympathise, which doesn`t change anything.

However, get well soon!

 

[TedG]

For anyone still interested in this sorry saga we went to Newcastle yesterday and were amazed to see not one but two Volt ebikes within ten minutes of each other.
There is a Volt dealer close to that splendid town at the foot of the Mournes. Tommie will be familiar with him no doubt.

I spoke to the first owner who had been in a pub and was "happy" which was an alarming sight. He did appear however reasonably capable and informed me that he knew of the law but had chosen to ignore it and had been riding his bike every day for the last two years since purchase. He was having none of the implications of what was and still is "illegal" use so we left it at that.

Anne approached the other rider who was a very respectable lady in her late 50's having some lunch alone on a bench. Apparently she had bought the bike just a few months before the Nolan show brought this all into the spotlight. She admitted that she was in tears when she realised the restrictions as she had loved using the bike for what is more than a decent distance for her with her fatigue health issues. She said she had contacted trading standards who told her that it was not illegal to sell such a bicycle but she should have been told of the restrictions at the time of purchase as it has been illegal to use one for quite a while in N.I.

She said she wouldn’t be able to cope with not using her bicycle so she registered it and was issued with a Q registration number.
The charge for this was £55
She also insured it for £165.

Her hubby has been great support to her in her quest for independence and he has kitted the bicycle really well with safety features.
She said she now feels so much better that she is legal and we wished her well.

After she left we discussed what she had done and I am ready to be corrected as necessary by you guys.
I never voiced my opinions to her but from what I see she is certainly not as legal as she claims.

Initially she has no rear number plate and I would have thought that this would be necessary as well as illumination for it, to say nothing of a brake light - if a Pedelec is to be classed as a pseudo moped which as all will know I am 100% against.

She says she won't wear a motorcycle helmet, which I understood to be part of the requirements.
I am assuming that ebikes are tax exempt as there was no visible tax disc holder.
She says she isn't bothered about cycle lanes and tow paths or train travel because none of them apply to her in her cycling life.
I held back on my thoughts on different scenarios including while she must now cycle on the main roads she will inevitably be overtaken on the inside by faster conventional cyclists using the cycle lane on her left.
This can't be right but it is bound to happen to all those who agree to use pseudo mopeds.
She claims that she is so much happier now that she is legal and she was actually a very pleasant agreeable lady who really enjoys her ride into Newcastle each day so I kept quiet about my thoughts rather than upset or distress her.

She came across as being as "serious" as we are regarding the still active law but says life is too short and she had done "all she could" to be out again.
Fair enough but even if we could cope with no train travel, cycle lane or tow path use etc (which we couldn’t) I am still stubbornly unconvinced that she is beyond the reach of an enthusiastic plod.

Two distinct opposites with wobbly Brian with roll-up in mouth heading off on a mission doing a plausible impression of Stephenson's Rocket against the one way flow along the promenade blindly oblivious to the confiscation of him, or his bike or both and the very respectable lady with full safety gear, and a belief that she was legal.

Chants from unstable Brian still ringing in our ears - "Get those bikes dusted off and get out on them" Hmm......

 

[flecc]

After she left we discussed what she had done and I am ready to be corrected as necessary by you guys.
I never voiced my opinions to her but from what I see she is certainly not as legal as she claims.

You're absolutely right Ted, she is not legal, due to the missing illuminated number plate and crash helmet. Although zero rated for VED, the annual licencing procedure still applies to keep check of what is on the road. I don't know if your cars and motorcycles still have paper tax discs, ours don't, but if they do she should be showing hers in a holder on the bike.
.

 

[LeighPing]

"Get those bikes dusted off and get out on them" Hmm......

 

[TedG]

I don't know if your cars and motorcycles still have paper tax discs, ours don't, but if they do she should be showing hers in a holder on the bike.
.

No Flecc we don't have paper discs anymore just like the rest of the UK.
Tax checks are made by relevant authorities via the registration number of the vehicle.
In this lady's case she has no rear number plate but if VED exempt that is perhaps the least of her problems.

 

[Lesleyb]

Sorry new this page. I am overweight and not fit to ride a pedal bike. My hubby would cycle at my slower pace so I treated myself to an e-bike. When this news came out I was upset and contacted the PSNI who said it was not a priority. I want to be legal so wasn’t riding the bike especially since a bike was taken off someone. I got the forms to register it but it is nearly 2 years old so that is a concern. I took out Insurance last night but then I realised....I am afraid of the dangers of riding on the road. I love the towpath and greenway. If i register the e-bike as a moped I would then need a helmet and would not be allowed in the cycle lanes. Cost of insurance £187 and register bike at £55. Too dear. I am not prepared to put my driving licence at risk. I have cancelled the insurance and might even sell my much loved bike. At the end of the day. It is a bicycle and you do need to pedal for it to move. That is much better for my health than not riding. Feeling frustrated about the whole thing.

 

[TedG]

You are obviously a member of the Cuckoos Nest, AKA Northern Ireland so you will have the sympathies of many Pedelecers.
If you have not read this thread from the beginning may I suggest that you do because you will find that most everything has been covered regarding our plight here.
I personally have exhausted all avenues and I am now compelled to wait.
I can only offer opinions and they are well documented in my previous posts.
You will see that many feel that I am over-reacting and they may well be correct but I will always respect their views.
I am not that experienced in law but I am very experienced in road traffic since 1964 on 2,4 and 18 wheels.
In that time I always promised myself that I would never make it easy for Trafficplod and I have succeeded, so I am not about to alter that by breaking an active law despite it being ludicrous.
When I spoke to Inspector Leech - #374 - she never said that our situation was "not a priority" but that it was something she could do without as it was difficult and unrewarding to enforce.
Again personally we are not intending to follow the registration route because it is fraught with complexities and eventual restrictions on pseudo mopeds.
We own bicycles which offer assistance to those who like yourself struggle with a conventional bicycle.
My opinion is that we should try to be patient, even though it has been a nightmare with many life clocks ticking furiously.
We have to remember that the necessary paperwork, previously overlooked, is simply waiting to be signed off. There is no debate planned as there are no objections so whenever our elected powers finally agree, as they must, we will then be in line to be recognised however long that line might be but the alternatives are not in our best interests IMO.
We have thought long and hard about a legal way of returning our expensive bicycles as being miss-sold but we really don't want to instead remaining hopeful that this will be resolved to enable us to use them again albeit legally this time. It has been confirmed that re-sale values of Pedelecs is poor. In any event I feel you may well have problems selling your bicycle at all in this country so my opinion is simply try to be patient.
You may well be "feeling frustrated" but you are not alone.
I was heartened to find over the last 10 months that I was getting proper support from fellow Pedelecers and that helped me to continue with my mission.
I hope you can gain some strength from them as well.
Ted.

 

[Lesleyb]

You are obviously a member of the Cuckoos Nest, AKA Northern Ireland so you will have the sympathies of many Pedelecers.
If you have not read this thread from the beginning may I suggest that you do because you will find that most everything has been covered regarding our plight here.
I personally have exhausted all avenues and I am now compelled to wait.
I can only offer opinions and they are well documented in my previous posts.
You will see that many feel that I am over-reacting and they may well be correct but I will always respect their views.
I am not that experienced in law but I am very experienced in road traffic since 1964 on 2,4 and 18 wheels.
In that time I always promised myself that I would never make it easy for Trafficplod and I have succeeded, so I am not about to alter that by breaking an active law despite it being ludicrous.
When I spoke to Inspector Leech - #374 - she never said that our situation was "not a priority" but that it was something she could do without as it was difficult and unrewarding to enforce.
Again personally we are not intending to follow the registration route because it is fraught with complexities and eventual restrictions on pseudo mopeds.
We own bicycles which offer assistance to those who like yourself struggle with a conventional bicycle.
My opinion is that we should try to be patient, even though it has been a nightmare with many life clocks ticking furiously.
We have to remember that the necessary paperwork, previously overlooked, is simply waiting to be signed off. There is no debate planned as there are no objections so whenever our elected powers finally agree, as they must, we will then be in line to be recognised however long that line might be but the alternatives are not in our best interests IMO.
We have thought long and hard about a legal way of returning our expensive bicycles as being miss-sold but we really don't want to instead remaining hopeful that this will be resolved to enable us to use them again albeit legally this time. It has been confirmed that re-sale values of Pedelecs is poor. In any event I feel you may well have problems selling your bicycle at all in this country so my opinion is simply try to be patient.
You may well be "feeling frustrated" but you are not alone.
I was heartened to find over the last 10 months that I was getting proper support from fellow Pedelecers and that helped me to continue with my mission.
I hope you can gain some strength from them as well.
Ted.

Thanks TedG. You have confirmed I was right not to go ahead. Let’s hope the NI government get their act together. I would nearly put this on top of the list. I might just have to get my non electric bike out. We will watch this space.

 

[Damian.Doherty]

Just to add my two cents, I'm still riding my bike every day to and from work!

 

[TedG]

Just to add my two cents, I'm still riding my bike every day to and from work!

Going to work Damian is what you have to do and we wish you well to continue to do that on your bike.
Our use was due to inability to ride conventional bicycles and was therefore leisure use only. We use our Bromptons for mild leisure use now but it is tiring and painful, therefore restricted to very short trips.
We still keep the batteries charged but as I have said I have exhausted all avenues now and I must restrain my anger with those clowns who would argue over the colours of a rainbow.
We simply can't give in now however tempting and end up on the Nolan show which is far from tempting.
Take care mate.

 

[mike killay]

I do wonder what would happen if a person was convicted.
1 In Flecc's case above.
2 In NI.
It seems to me that the UK court would have to convict, but an appeal to the EU on the grounds that gross inefficiency in the UK civil service which should have enacted EU law would rebound against HM Government (yet again)

 

[TedG]

Apologies for lifting this thread again and somewhat off topic.
Probably I am preaching to the converted but as a follow on from posts #317 #323 and #375 I would like to say that I have just received my card licence from DVA which is now complete with all required categories.

What I would like to say is that without the wrinkled and gnarled paper copy which I had retained with the proof of my categories listed I would have had no hope of getting justice from either the DVLA who originally denied my claims while living in England and subsequently the DVA here who also insisted that they had no record of me ever passing a motorcycle test in 1966 in Belfast.
I have no recollection of making this vital copy but despite the DVLA stating that they had no records of my exploits back before colour TV there was evidence to the contrary.

It took six weeks which was fine and there was no charge which was fine and there was no apology which was fine so may I politely suggest to all you folk out there who may have need to have your driving licence renewed for any reason, to ensure you have a copy / jpeg image / scanned proof etc which shows which categories you hold in the event that your "new" licence may be missing a letter or three.

I was vaguely aware that motorbike categories had a mysterious habit of disappearing from driving licences if they weren't checked upon receipt and it certainly did happen to me.

Be aware.

 

[larneyin]

Now that the NI Assembly is back in action it is time to progress this ridiculous situation. Accordingly I approached my local MLA. He listened to what I had to say and undertook to look into the matter. A few hours later he emailed me to say he had turned up a Freedom of Information Request response from PSNI (copy attached). This shows clearly that the legislation is drafted and only requires "affirmative resolution" by the Assembly and he has submitted a written question to the Minister for Infrastructure on the matter. I am told that affirmative resolution is used for non-contentious issues and that it should be dealt with without formal debate.

I also contacted the Green Party who said they were well aware of the situation and would be progressing it but pointed out, not surprisingly, that there were many such items to be dealt with so that it was difficult to say when this might happen.

I would urge all NI ebike owners to lobby their MLAs, regardless of party, to try to bring this to a speedy satisfactory conclusion

 

[TedG]

Good to hear from you again. There is another thread running on this but I have no PC at the moment so I can't direct you to it via this tablet. I hope you will be able to search it out as it had been very active up until Ms Mallon suggested that she was "looking for a way to proceed".
It was agreed here that there was a simple way to proceed and that entailed the use of a pen or quill.
I personally was giving things another few days and then with my rebuilt PC was going to launch another attack on the six Stormont stalwarts who I had been in contact with, but this time saying that I was tired being fobbed off and felt that I would probably join all the others who never actually stopped riding and for the first time in my 70 years would deliberately break a road traffic law and go out on my bicycle and cycle down to Islandmagee to visit my sister.