Update on N.I. e-bike regs.

[TedG]

I believe that was the letter written by Inspector Leech. I had a meeting with her and I posted her comments #374.
It really is still a grey and uneasy area perhaps with some areas of PSNI interpreting the "recommendations" to suit circumstances and others doggedly upholding what is still an active and enforceable law.

 

[RustyToad]

Good to hear the fellow in question didn't have his bike confiscated, but worrying all the same. I'm going to print a copy of the letter and carry it with me.

 

[TedG]

My apologies for resurrecting this thread once again but I have just received a reply from on high addressed to Steven Agnew who was obliging enough to meet with us at Stormont several weeks ago and present some questions on our behalf.

I have noticed the reference to an "engine" which perhaps wasn’t helpful.
I never asked that question as such.
The reply included that term and perhaps in my personal cynical view is an attempt to strengthen their case that EPAC's are indeed mopeds or motorcycles and therefore they are correct in restricting these bicycles accordingly.

The apparent obstinate refusal to accept that item as a motor, an electric one to be precise is in my view not beneficial to these bicycles being seen as bicycles but maybe I am looking too deep.

Make of this what you will but I feel obliged to share it with you all who have been with us since the start.

 

[tommie]

Thanks again for your efforts Ted.

Locally i feel we`re flogging a dead horse on this and the default reply from the SoS office is mostly sympathetic but the tone is `it`s mostly your own fault for not agreeing an Executive and the sooner you silly people do that the better`.
Did you ever contact one of our three MEP`s?
When i get a minute i`ll drop them an email, as i assumed that any EU directive had to be applied by every member state and if we had no Assembly at the time it should have fallen back to Westminster to see it was complied with?

 

[TedG]

It would be fair to say that out of all who I wrote to in the empty chambers at Stormont I only received a couple of noteworthy replies.
I was disappointed with another two in particular who did reply but offered nothing, making me feel it was in some way our fault that no agreement could be met.
I haven't written to any MEP because I began to lose faith and became bored with the stock answer but in honesty I, like most of us are impatient and perhaps failing to see that a sensible way out of this mire is bound and tied by red tape.
Hope you are planning an eventful weekend in the face of the restrictions.
Take care.

 

[Sinjin Smythe]

Thanks for trying Ted, i was thinking of just getting bike insurance so i can get back out on my ebike again, the back of my license shows im allowed to drive mopeds and motorbikes as i have my driving license since the 90s.
Has anyone gone through with getting insurance on their ebike and if so was the price reasonable? Does the bike need to be licensed and taxed before you can get insurance on it?

I think the battery is going to be useless on my bike by the time we have the laws changed, if ever.

 

[LeighPing]

Thanks for trying Ted, i was thinking of just getting bike insurance so i can get back out on my ebike again.

What! No bike lane, tow path or bike path access. Don't fall into their trap.

 

[flecc]

Thanks for trying Ted, i was thinking of just getting bike insurance so i can get back out on my ebike again, the back of my license shows im allowed to drive mopeds and motorbikes as i have my driving license since the 90s.
Has anyone gone through with getting insurance on their ebike and if so was the price reasonable? Does the bike need to be licensed and taxed before you can get insurance on it?

I think the battery is going to be useless on my bike by the time we have the laws changed, if ever.

You can get back on without any of the motor vehicle nonsense, the letter approved by your Chief Constable making it clear that e-bikers riding sensibly should not be bothered by his officers, who are being informed for their compliance, his word.
.

 

[flecc]

When i get a minute i`ll drop them an email, as i assumed that any EU directive had to be applied by every member state and if we had no Assembly at the time it should have fallen back to Westminster to see it was complied with?

While true, that only applies to the rules on the vehicles, e.g. type approval, not the usage.

Usage is ruled on by member states, so the EU cannot overrule N.I. treating pedelecs as motorcycles. Neither can the UK since transport is devolved, though they could strongly influence.
.

 

[tommie]

Has anyone gone through with getting insurance on their ebike and if so was the price reasonable? Does the bike need to be licensed and taxed before you can get insurance on it?

I did make inquiries about that.
Adrian Flux will do it through BikeSure.
Cost seems to be anything between £120 and £180 Third Party.

But as Leigh says above you could be worse off possibly.

 

[TedG]

Thanks for trying Ted, i was thinking of just getting bike insurance so i can get back out on my ebike again, the back of my license shows im allowed to drive mopeds and motorbikes as i have my driving license since the 90s.
Has anyone gone through with getting insurance on their ebike and if so was the price reasonable? Does the bike need to be licensed and taxed before you can get insurance on it?

I think the battery is going to be useless on my bike by the time we have the laws changed, if ever.

I don't know where to start here but what I do know is that over the last eight months I have fought long and hard with many departments to avoid having to go down the registration route. This is a slippery slope which will end in tears and as LeighPing just beat me to it - no ability to use ebikes on tow paths, cycle lanes or train transport as our bicycles will be classed as mopeds at the least.
The authorities want us to agree to this process for reasons best known to themselves but personally I feel it will be a major mistake for us to agree.
Obviously I can't influence anyone on this or any other forum not to give in and foolishly agree to have our bicycles classed as mopeds but I personally am 100% against this on principle because from the outset all we ever wanted was parity with the rest of the UK to which we belong.
Nothing more nothing less.
I continue to hear suggestions from various learned people in power that we should try to be patient because this situation is not up for debate - it simply awaits signing off.
I am not the most patient person in this septic world and I hate discrimination but I think it will be a big mistake if folk get bored waiting and "fire up" the process of insurance, licence, tax, and registration.
That will simply remove the dilemma off their table and make it easy for the powers that be to move on to something else. I believe we are just as important and have legitimate grievances so I will be very disappointed if the registration process gathers pace, becomes accepted, enters law and consequently leaves me (and quite a few others) outside the door.

I'm sorry my friend but I have no idea about e-bike insurance and I have no intention of researching it.
Any motor vehicle will have to be taxed before insurance can be issued but in the case of our bicycles I have no intention of finding out what is necessary to have them classed as mopeds, because they are not.

Sorry if this is a bit strong but I can see trouble ahead if enough innocent folk agree to this nonsense.
We are both in our late 60's so we have about 20 minutes left in this life and therefore we would like to have the normality which we had during our time in England but we will keep the batteries topped up and keep hoping that this nightmare won't go the full year.

Simply my opinions.

 

[TedG]

What! No bike lane, tow path or bike path access. Don't fall into their trap.

Is there an option somewhere to install 100% agree?

 

[TedG]

But as Leigh says above you could be worse off possibly.

More like Probably.

 

[TedG]

You can get back on without any of the motor vehicle nonsense, the letter approved by your Chief Constable making it clear that e-bikers riding sensibly should not be bothered by his officers, who are being informed for their compliance, his word.
.

Is there an option somewhere for a "like but unsure?"

Signed Mr Suspicious.

 

[TedG]

It's not funny Flecc. Help me.

 

[anotherkiwi]

... from the outset all we ever wanted was parity with the rest of the UK to which we belong.

That should have been in bold and large characters... You also belong to the EU for the moment and you would also want parity with the other +500 million potential pedelec riders.

For me this is an English problem not a NI problem because if the English want the kingdom to be united they should guarantee equal rights to all its citizens.

 

[flecc]

Is there an option somewhere for a "like but unsure?"

Signed Mr Suspicious.

I personally woudn't be too suspicious, compliance was a pretty strong word in this context, as near as could be to an order to ignore the law. The Chief Constable isn't entirely without power if an officer attempts to prosecute, he can rule that a caution to the "offender" is appropriate instead of a court case.

I can't see that arising though, it would be a brave officer who opposed his Chief Constable's wishes.
.

 

[TedG]

From the outset all we ever wanted was parity with the rest of the UK to which we belong.

Is that OK?

 

[flecc]

From the outset all we ever wanted was parity with the rest of the UK to which we belong.

Is that OK?

It's sad that we are leaving the EU so leaving any chance of their help, but one can still go to the European Courts.

Under the EU constitution, every member citizen has the right to enjoy every benefit that other EU citizens enjoy. Obviously this has limitations, but it is a lever.
.

 

[Sinjin Smythe]

I asked the Foyle PSNI about using ebikes in the city and referenced the letter from the chief constable allowing officers to use discretion, although I didn't have the letter to hand, the response was that it wasn't down to the chief constable to allow officers to use discretion and that the law must be followed. It would be an interesting case if anyone would be prosecuted for cycling on a cycle path whether insured or not.
I agree that we shouldn't break out from the pack, if the general consensus is not to cooperate with this law then I'll leave the bike in the shed for another year or ten.