Update on N.I. e-bike regs.

[LeighPing]

Don't have to be on Facebook to get all that. We just use the stooges who are reporting on that for us!

Would you really consider me an ill informed person?
.

Not at all.

I only put on fb what I want to be on fb. I use it for info, live news and a few other things like laughing at the PSNI. I chat with old colleagues on a secure page not available to just anyone. I don't use it for friends or family, to be contactable, or to show what I like or dislike for marketing purposes.

 

[Nealh]

Me as well, that's why I wasn't able to read it. No facetube account.

 

[tommie]

Crikey, this is nothing short of a revelation for a Bank Holiday.

No Facebook or Twitter here either,

I`m sure as Leigh says they have their uses for responsible individuals,
but i see them, especially Twitter, as an uncivilised haven for arguments and nastiness.

They will not inhabit my PC............ never, never Never

 

[RobF]

My cycling group had a facebook account which had its uses.

Note the past tense - the page has fallen into disuse.

That was my only use of facebook, so I suppose I'm now a non-user, although my account is still there.

 

[TedG]

No Facebook or Twitter here either,

I`m sure as Leigh says they have their uses for responsible individuals,
but i see them, especially Twitter, as an uncivilised haven for arguments and nastiness.

They will not inhabit my PC............ never, never Never

Ah there you are Tommie lad.
This is gathering momentum, there are a whole bunch of us. Coming out of the woodwork.
This is very heartening for me as I was being convinced that FB was the only way to inner happiness.

 

[TedG]

Things like laughing at the PSNI.

I can't help but think that the PSNI starting a FB page extolling their "success" in removing a dangerous bicycle from the streets was maybe not in their best interests.

Their fragile credibility has been called into question via the amount of adverse comments but they compounded this by actually printing a photo of an electrically assisted bicycle allowing many who were obviously unaware of what an EPAC is to actually see one possibly for the first time.

It doesn't seem to have gone down well as it looks nothing like a Fireblade for the footpath!

Foot themselves the shooting in...........

 

[RobF]

Ah there you are Tommie lad.
This is gathering momentum, there are a whole bunch of us. Coming out of the woodwork.
This is very heartening for me as I was being convinced that FB was the only way to inner happiness.

Facebook is a big business but it's hard to assess the extent of use.

I have some friends and acquaintances - particularly women - who are never off it.

On t'other hand, I probably know more people who are not users.

Official bodies - such as police forces - and companies do Facebook's promotional job for it by encouraging people to use the channel.

In most - but not all - cases, the same info is on the relevant website.

Going back to cycling, for my group I've researched cafe stops, a couple of which seem to have their only online presence on Facebook.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The day you have to have fb to do anything interesting I'll bin the computer... I use grownups social media, pedelecs UK is social media of the best sort.

 

[flecc]

This is very heartening for me as I was being convinced that FB was the only way to inner happiness.

There are just over 2 billion Facebook subscribers worldwide.

That means there are around 5.4 billions who aren't, even though many of those have internet enabled phones.

Considering that many registered to Facebook will not be active users anyway, we refuseniks are well in the majority.

The same goes for the Twitterati.
.

 

[Nealh]

Facetube own the other piece of shite Whats'upp and a guy at work started a group one for us, he eventually got me to sign up. Four days later I deleted my account, as all the other user did was post shite less warblings and moaning/bitching about every thing . A total waste of time.

 

[Damian.Doherty]

Just received this from a legal friend. Common sense at last! Suggest we all print off a copy and carry it with us.

This is a great letter to have, the only thing I'm unclear of is who actually wrote it?

It looks to be signed by R Leech, but does anyone know his/her rank or position in the PSNI?

 

[flecc]

This is a great letter to have, the only thing I'm unclear of is who actually wrote it?

It looks to be signed by R Leech, but does anyone know his/her rank or position in the PSNI?

It appears to be with the authority of the Chief Constable, since he instructed the writer to reply on his behalf. The mention that it will be passed to all officers for compliance certainly carries that authority.
.

 

[TedG]

This is a great letter to have, the only thing I'm unclear of is who actually wrote it?

It looks to be signed by R Leech, but does anyone know his/her rank or position in the PSNI?

I am going into hospital tomorrow but before I go I will call into the Road Policing Sprucefield Complex where it appears this letter originated from.
This complex is actually ten minutes from where we live and my attempts to speak to someone on the phone have been unsuccessful - so I will call instead.
I will post whatever I am able to find out.

 

[TedG]

Hi Guys

For those of you still interested I called at the Roads Policing Complex Lisburn this morning.

I wasn’t allowed in and neither was my car. Fair to say this place is not the village cop shop, this is one level down from Fort Knox.

I was told to wait in the car park and in ten minutes a very pleasant lady came over and introduced herself as Inspector Rosemary Leech, Chief of Roads Policing.

This is the R. Leech at the foot of the letter.

She knew all about the letter as she had dictated it under instruction from the Chief Constable.

She was incredibly clever, understanding and sympathetic to our plight regarding the absurd law.

Far from being dismissive even though she was freezing and enduring horizontal rain she suggested that "the last thing she would want to do is to prosecute someone on a bicycle, unless they were a danger to the public".
She admitted that the law as it stands puts her and her force around the country in an unenviable position as they are duty bound to uphold it.

She was well versed in this issue and knew a surprising amount about it, despite me thinking that it was simply an annoyance to them.

She agreed that they did not want a registration process as that would create a nightmare trying to enforce it when resources were already stretched but again reiterated that they can't override Stormont or the impasse therein.

She admitted that she is "sadly unable to give carte blanch to e-bike riders" just to carry on as that would be condoning the breaking of a current road traffic law. She did make another OTR comment but I was advised not to make it public and I have to respect that.
It was actually quite relevant but suffice to say it was certainly in our favour.

Overall a very positive meeting in difficult conditions with a very intelligent lady and we were well impressed and heartened by what she had to say.

She left us, stating that she "would make a few phone calls" and wished us well with our battle for change and I have no reason to doubt her.

I wasn’t born yesterday and I can say that this lady was a credit to her profession and at no time did I feel I was being "fobbed off" - trust me I have met and endured many who tried....and failed.

She can be Googled under her title and she is a very active lady who actually is one of the all too few genuine "good guys".

 

[TedG]

DVLA are notorious for missing off “additional” categories on licence renewals. Do you have any of your old licenses showing the entitlement?

As I am what could be termed a stubborn person I decided that I had enough ammunition to further this anomaly.
I wrote to the DVA in Coleraine and explained the error of their ways regarding the categories on my current licence.
The last time I embarked on this challenge I was told in no uncertain terms that they had no records of me ever passing a test.
This I know from experience to be a common or garden foboff.

Fortunately I tend to keep copies of most things and I had a priceless jpeg copy of the old green paper licence stating that I did indeed hold a motorcycle entitlement so I reignited my mission.

Yesterday I received a mail from them telling me to return both parts of my current licence with a covering note and my "motorcycle entitlement will be reinstalled". No apology was offered which was fine.

This is a good thing as even though I am probably finished with motorbikes the memories of the better times are still alive and well deep in my mind and having my licence restored will keep them ticking over.
I was proud of my motorbike category and will be glad to see it back.
I was also very proud of my Class One category but I can let that go, it was only to pay the bills even though it gave 30 years of job satisfaction.

Never give up.

 

[flecc]

Hi Guys

For those of you still interested I called at the Roads Policing Complex Lisburn this morning.

I wasn’t allowed in and neither was my car. Fair to say this place is not the village cop shop, this is one level down from Fort Knox.

I was told to wait in the car park and in ten minutes a very pleasant lady came over and introduced herself as Inspector Rosemary Leech, Chief of Roads Policing.

This is the R. Leech at the foot of the letter.

She knew all about the letter as she had dictated it under instruction from the Chief Constable.

She was incredibly clever, understanding and sympathetic to our plight regarding the absurd law.

Far from being dismissive even though she was freezing and enduring horizontal rain she suggested that "the last thing she would want to do is to prosecute someone on a bicycle, unless they were a danger to the public".
She admitted that the law as it stands puts her and her force around the country in an unenviable position as they are duty bound to uphold it.

She was well versed in this issue and knew a surprising amount about it, despite me thinking that it was simply an annoyance to them.

She agreed that they did not want a registration process as that would create a nightmare trying to enforce it when resources were already stretched but again reiterated that they can't override Stormont or the impasse therein.

She admitted that she is "sadly unable to give carte blanch to e-bike riders" just to carry on as that would be condoning the breaking of a current road traffic law. She did make another OTR comment but I was advised not to make it public and I have to respect that.
It was actually quite relevant but suffice to say it was certainly in our favour.

Overall a very positive meeting in difficult conditions with a very intelligent lady and we were well impressed and heartened by what she had to say.

She left us, stating that she "would make a few phone calls" and wished us well with our battle for change and I have no reason to doubt her.

I wasn’t born yesterday and I can say that this lady was a credit to her profession and at no time did I feel I was being "fobbed off" - trust me I have met and endured many who tried....and failed.

She can be Googled under her title and she is a very active lady who actually is one of the all too few genuine "good guys".

Well done Ted, your efforts are paying off for N.I. e-bikers and we now know with certainty that the Chief Constable's views are those of the letter. It seems our impression that it will be reasonably safe to ride legal e-bikes so long as it's done responsibly were justified. Understandably no officer of the law can say it's ok to ignore any law, but we can interpret what is meant.

I'm pleased for you all there with this outcome.
.

 

[RustyToad]

Hi all, new here but having read this thread, I sent the following email to my local MP (Paul Girvan), and the SoC (Karen Bradley). I added an ebike conversion to my bike as I live in Dundrod, and resent spending 1.5 hours in my car, wasting time and money, and reducing my fitness, daily. The assist system seems to do well in ironing out the 1000ft elevation gain on the way home, allowing me to do it in a reasonable time.

In time, I hope my fitness will improve back to where I was in my 20s, but for now, this is an excellent solution.

I wasn't aware of the situation regarding e-bikes here when I got the kit, but to be completely honest, I'm not in the least surprised. The last few pages of this thread are encouraging though, so I'll take the same route as everyone else here - ignore the problem and ride safely.

To Ted, flecc, Tommie and others in this thread, thanks for the excellent resource and work you have done here.

Second day on the bike today. Performed marvelously yesterday. Home in 50 minutes, car takes 45-60 minutes, normal pedal bike would take me 80-90 (and there's no way I could repeat it again today).



Dear [Mr Girvan | Secretary of State],

I have recently converted my pedal bicycle into an "e-bike", with the addition of a small hub motor, a battery, and a controller. This has allowed me to begin commuting to work in Belfast, a rather hilly 25 mile round trip. My current fitness levels would not allow this without the conversion.

I believe that, due to the collapse of the devolved government in Northern Ireland, an exemption has not been passed to allow e-bikes such as mine to be treated as pedal bikes, rather than mopeds or motorbikes. My understanding is that this leaves Northern Ireland out of step with the rest of the UK (and indeed the EU).

If my interpretation above is correct, and such bikes are currently viewed as motorbikes in Northern Ireland, can you please let me know what is being done to bring Northern Ireland into line with the rest of the UK?

Yours faithfully,

(name, address and phone number)

 

[TedG]

Hi Rusty
Good to hear from you and appreciated your efforts to keep our dilemma active with those in power - if power is the word I am looking for.

Nice to know that you are just up the mountain a bit from us - and hilly is something of an understatement!
I know the area well.
I wish you well whizzing up and down Black Mountain.

As folk on this excellent forum will know I am still wary about using our e-bikes simply because of what was obvious in the face of the Inspector of Roads Policing.
That expression was saying something slightly different from what she was relating.

The law as it stands is still an active law and no matter how careful we all strive to be, accidents can and will happen and although she did her best to assure us that if all e-bikers take good care the PSNI would have no reason or indeed desire to chase and prosecute.

However she was duty bound to inform us that the PSNI will have to uphold the law and if there was to be an incident or accident the uninsured, untaxed and (currently) illegal "vehicle" involved would undoubtedly be confiscated and the rider prosecuted accordingly.
She left us in no doubt about this fact.

We were probably expecting the response which we got from those in Stormont whom we contacted and met but I was disappointed in the lack of response from the others who I contacted although it appears to be generally agreed that "hands are tied" until a devolved government can be formed to sign this off and give us the parity here to which we are entitled.

You, like a few others from N.I. need an e-bike for commuting but we are leisure folk only so reluctantly we are still on the Bromptons with their (very obvious) limitations but we both agree that at our age we really don't need the aggravation which personal litigation or a visit to Laganside Court would present.

Stay safe.

 

[RustyToad]

Nice to know that you are just up the mountain a bit from us - and hilly is something of an understatement!

You're not lying there! Ride home has over 1,100 ft of elevation gain. Still, the ride in is nice, hardly have to turn on the assist at all.

I understand your position completely (I've read through this entire thread). I hope the situation is resolved here soon, to allow you to enjoy your bikes again. It's such a nonsense.

Guess I should have posted in the newbies introduction section first, huh? Ah well, I can never really be bothered with that on forums...!

 

[Damian.Doherty]

It feels a bit like two steps forward and one step back....this was posted on our local Derry Cycle Facebook Group yesterday.