Update on N.I. e-bike regs.

[TedG]

Excellent letter Damian.
Confirms my belief that my 3 page monster, albeit crammed with detail was perhaps a bit long winded.
Nevertheless hopefully all contact from those of us who are being tormented will have a positive effect.
Many thanks.
Take care, horrible day today for a bike.

 

[mike killay]

I doubt that Mrs Bradley will personally read the letters anyway, a Civil Servant will collate them and give her a summary.
That is why long letters are not needed, just the number of letters received.
Why is everyone so reluctant to join the request?

 

[TedG]

I accept my letter may have been a bit excessive but from the replies I was getting from those MP's who did actually reply, and to be fair there were quite a few but the responses suggested that they really and genuinely didn't seem to know the first thing about battery assisted pedal bicycles.
I set out to leave the SOS in no doubt what they were and how much my wife and I needed the assistance they offered to those of us with health and age issues.
Nevertheless I still am hopeful that others will eventually join us over here and try to spark them into some sort of action to remedy this nightmare.

 

[Sinjin Smythe]

I'm in Derry too and I've parked my ebike up as well, I was enjoying commuting to work on it, especially up the Crescent Link in a headwind whilst everyone else is stuck in the queue of traffic!
We had a scheme at work where you could borrow an ebike for a week to see how you managed, this was all stopped too and the bikes are now gathering dust somewhere.
As much as I enjoyed it, I wouldn't consider registering and insuring my bike , particularly now that I read that I can't take an ebike on a designated cycle path or pavement. Most of the route from my house to work is a cycle path, I tried cycling on the road on my road bike and having to weave in and out of the side of the road to avoid potholes and road furniture whilst school runs are on and white van man passing with just centimetres to spare put me off that idea.
I came across this video on YouTube recently of an American visitor who was stopped by police up near the Titanic Quarter, you can see how depending on which police officer stops you, you may get two very different outcomes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=595&v=yUt4aBe9q-0

Watch from 10 mins into video

 

[tommie]

Well they were asking for it weren`t they?
electric skateboards on pavements and some contraption of an electric bike with no pedaling.
Never mind Belfast, in any UK city they`d be asking for trouble.

 

[TedG]

As much as I enjoyed it, I wouldn't consider registering and insuring my bike , particularly now that I read that I can't take an ebike on a designated cycle path or pavement.

Have to agree with this sentiment.
However several e-bikes have been seen quite recently with riders either oblivious to the "laws" or simply disregarding them.
As I have said before we are just not prepared to take the risk, not so much because of possible police action, which would be "interesting" but more so from possible personal legal action which could be very costly.

 

[TedG]

I really am starting to lose patience now. The following is a reply to my extremely detailed 3 page letter outlining our desire here to be brought into line with the rest of the UK who don't have a registration process. What part of it did they not understand. How much clearer can I make it?

Thank you for your email regarding Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles, to which I am responding on the Secretary of State’s behalf.

We certainly understand the frustrations that this issue has caused, with the collapse of the Executive meaning that the regulations set to be introduced to the Assembly have been delayed. The Department for Infrastructure have advised, however, that e-bike owners can register with the DVLA (who are the responsible agency), and they have been working hard to raise awareness of the availability of a clear process for registration through the gov.uk portal.

It is important to note, though, that this is a devolved matter, and thus the applicable Regulations would be for a restored Executive to take forward. It would not therefore be appropriate for the Secretary of State to facilitate your request. This is one of a range of issues which highlight the importance of restoring devolved government in Northern Ireland so that decisions can be taken in the interests of whole community. That remains the Secretary of State’s priority, and she has encouraged all those affected by the absence of the Executive to continue to make their voices heard.

 

[mike killay]

I really am starting to lose patience now. The following is a reply to my extremely detailed 3 page letter outlining our desire here to be brought into line with the rest of the UK who don't have a registration process. What part of it did they not understand. How much clearer can I make it?

Thank you for your email regarding Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles, to which I am responding on the Secretary of State’s behalf.

We certainly understand the frustrations that this issue has caused, with the collapse of the Executive meaning that the regulations set to be introduced to the Assembly have been delayed. The Department for Infrastructure have advised, however, that e-bike owners can register with the DVLA (who are the responsible agency), and they have been working hard to raise awareness of the availability of a clear process for registration through the gov.uk portal.

It is important to note, though, that this is a devolved matter, and thus the applicable Regulations would be for a restored Executive to take forward. It would not therefore be appropriate for the Secretary of State to facilitate your request. This is one of a range of issues which highlight the importance of restoring devolved government in Northern Ireland so that decisions can be taken in the interests of whole community. That remains the Secretary of State’s priority, and she has encouraged all those affected by the absence of the Executive to continue to make their voices heard.

Mt guess is that your letter was understood.
Their reply is that they are not going to do anything about it.
Any news on if a government is likely to be formed?

 

[flecc]

I really am starting to lose patience now. The following is a reply to my extremely detailed 3 page letter outlining our desire here to be brought into line with the rest of the UK who don't have a registration process. What part of it did they not understand. How much clearer can I make it?

Thank you for your email regarding Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles, to which I am responding on the Secretary of State’s behalf.

We certainly understand the frustrations that this issue has caused, with the collapse of the Executive meaning that the regulations set to be introduced to the Assembly have been delayed. The Department for Infrastructure have advised, however, that e-bike owners can register with the DVLA (who are the responsible agency), and they have been working hard to raise awareness of the availability of a clear process for registration through the gov.uk portal.

It is important to note, though, that this is a devolved matter, and thus the applicable Regulations would be for a restored Executive to take forward. It would not therefore be appropriate for the Secretary of State to facilitate your request. This is one of a range of issues which highlight the importance of restoring devolved government in Northern Ireland so that decisions can be taken in the interests of whole community. That remains the Secretary of State’s priority, and she has encouraged all those affected by the absence of the Executive to continue to make their voices heard.

Long ago Ted I found that it's waste of time ever writing to government to protest a status quo. Their civil service response is always the same.

It commences by sympathising, then goes on at length to state in essence that the status quo is government policy and therefore will not be changing.

The only thing I've ever seen budge them is civil disobedience on a grand scale, as we saw in the mainland Poll Tax riots for example. It seems only real fear works, so little wonder some are provoked into terrorism.
.

 

[TedG]

Any news on if a government is likely to be formed?

Not during the Easter holidays I suspect as they are on holiday..........

 

[mike killay]

I think that the politics behind this is that the National Government are mightily p..........off with the NI government politicians.
The SoS had to intervene directly when the finances threatened to come to a halt, but politically, the Westminster governments best option is to let NI stew in its own juice.
The view that Westminster takes is that NI wanted its own government so get on with it.
The more disgruntled NI voters there are, the sooner the chance that the squabbling will stop.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'd use one of these until they sort it out:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-Ecco-26-Wheel-Pedal-Assist-Hidden-Battery-Electric-Mountain-Bicycle-Bike/132315817635?epid=9004680606&hash=item1ecea326a3:g:9I4AAOSwG7lZyQPd

 

[TedG]

I think that the politics behind this is that the National Government are mightily p..........off with the NI government politicians.
A great many innocent souls over here are also mightily cheesed off with this local governmental mob.

The Westminster governments best option is to let NI stew in its own juice.
Sadly those same innocent souls who like cycling in peace and without pain are the ones who are stewing most.

 

[MRMAC9]

I'm in Derry too and I've parked my ebike up as well, I was enjoying commuting to work on it, especially up the Crescent Link in a headwind whilst everyone else is stuck in the queue of traffic!
We had a scheme at work where you could borrow an ebike for a week to see how you managed, this was all stopped too and the bikes are now gathering dust somewhere.
As much as I enjoyed it, I wouldn't consider registering and insuring my bike , particularly now that I read that I can't take an ebike on a designated cycle path or pavement. Most of the route from my house to work is a cycle path, I tried cycling on the road on my road bike and having to weave in and out of the side of the road to avoid potholes and road furniture whilst school runs are on and white van man passing with just centimetres to spare put me off that idea.
I came across this video on YouTube recently of an American visitor who was stopped by police up near the Titanic Quarter, you can see how depending on which police officer stops you, you may get two very different outcomes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=595&v=yUt4aBe9q-0


In Belfast I've seen an elderly man many times on his Freego Eagle and a young lady on a Freego Wren near the city centre. I've also seen a Chinese gent making light work of a steep hill on a small-wheeled ebike. These people are not a threat to public safety. They were moving at a more sedate pace than a fit young man out for a cycle on an ordinary bike.

Watch from 10 mins into video

 

[craiggor]

As far as I'm aware to register a L1e-a in N.I. all you need is £55 registration fee, insurance certificate and no mot. If you wanted to take your EAPC to N.I. from England,Scotland or Wales can you apply for registration the same way or would you need a certificate of conformity or MSVA ?

Sent from my T1005 using Tapatalk

 

[TedG]

As far as I'm aware to register a L1e-a in N.I. all you need is £55 registration fee, insurance certificate and no mot. If you wanted to take your EAPC to N.I. from England,Scotland or Wales can you apply for registration the same way or would you need to get a MSVA first ?

Sent from my T1005 using Tapatalk

From our understanding the registration process to be introduced here will mean tax, insurance, licence Inc CBT, and a motorcycle helmet to the regulation standard.
The e-bike would then be restricted to use on roads but not cycle lanes or towpaths.
Because this law is still so "grey" and was brought to light initially by a hysterical chat show host nobody here actually knows what is fact and what is fiction.
Because the "laws" are still not clear a great many ebikes users are refusing to use their bikes because of risk of prosecution or personal litigation action, us included.
After over 50 legal years on 2, 4 and 18 wheels I personally don't want it all to end in tears just because of a simple ride along a towpath on our ebikes which we bought in good faith, oblivious to a dusty 1995 ruling existing here in the backwoods of N.I..

 

[TedG]

Your comment craiggor about bringing your e-bike across to N.I. for a holiday break perhaps is an interesting one to which I have no answer apart from feeling that should you have the misfortune to have an accident / incident you could in theory be prosecuted for using an illegal "vehicle" on the roads in the same manner that you would be should you bring an uninsured or untaxed motor vehicle here on the ferry.
By the same token we could load our ebikes into a car or van and drive the 100 miles to the ROI and unload them and ride them until the batteries died then bring them home to N.I (the UK) again without fear of prosecution / litigation.

 

[craiggor]

Your comment craiggor about bringing your e-bike across to N.I. for a holiday break perhaps is an interesting one to which I have no answer apart from feeling that should you have the misfortune to have an accident / incident you could in theory be prosecuted for using an illegal "vehicle" on the roads in the same manner that you would be should you bring an uninsured or untaxed motor vehicle here on the ferry.
By the same token we could load our ebikes into a car or van and drive the 100 miles to the ROI and unload them and ride them until the batteries died then bring them home to N.I (the UK) again without fear of prosecution / litigation.

N.I ebikers seem to have been given bye when it comes to registration Gov.UK says you only need £55 registration fee and insurance. If you want to register in England,Scotland,Wales or R.O.I. You will need a certificate of conformity (don't know if all manufacturers can supply one) or a £80 M.S.V.A. test on top of registration fee.

Sent from my T1005 using Tapatalk

 

[TedG]

I won't argue with you regarding this but it doesn't agree with the info I am getting from several polititions and indeed the SOS who have replied to me.
It also conflicts with the letter I received to my question to the PSNI so as far as I am concerned I trust neither.
Either way as I said a registration process with anything else it would entail would still prevent us from using ebikes as bicycles and therefore be unable to use cycle lanes or towpaths.
As pensioners with health issues we would be unable / unwilling to keep up with traffic flow on main roads as after the 15mph cut out we are on our limits.

 

[flecc]

N.I ebikers seem to have been given bye when it comes to registration Gov.UK says you only need £55 registration fee and insurance. If you want to register in England,Scotland,Wales or R.O.I. You will need a certificate of conformity (don't know if all manufacturers can supply one) or a £80 M.S.V.A. test on top of registration fee.

As Ted says, it's not the registration that's the real objection. It's the fact that thereafter the bike is fully treated as a motorcycle in N.I.

That means number plate, annual free VED renewal, third party motor vehicle insurance which is difficult and expensive to obtain for bike based machines, a BS certified motorcycle helmet, no access to cycling facilities. Even using a bicycle rack on a pavement is illegal, parking has to be in motorcycle bays or the road where parking is permitted. The statement by the DfT that Twist and Go e-bikes will be treated as EAPCs does not apply in N.I. due to their devolved powers.

To complicate matters further, there is no driving licence class for these low speed machines and N.I. has not adopted the category Q group. So a pedelec is in a legal limbo, neither permitted nor banned. Can one be ridden at all legally or will riding one always mean it's ridden illegally? Their police don't seem to know.
.