University E-Bike scheme

[Dewi]

Hi,

I'm involved with a project building a new student halls of residence in North Wales and am looking at setting up some form of electric bike scheme across the whole university campus (11,000 students, 5 main sites 2-3 miles apart & some quite steep inclines in between!).

Universities are always strapped for cash and I thought I would see if there were any providers out there that might consider either leasing 40-50 bikes plus charging posts etc. as a pilot or providing them as a managed service (financial details to be thrashed out etc).

Any suggestions would be very welcome!

Many thanks
Dewi

 

[trex]

I reckon woosh would be interested in this project.
Dewi, would you take a look at this new bike, the Zephyr-B. It has a big fat BPM motor, will cope well with Wesh hills, also folds, so can go into lilfts.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?zephyr-b

 

[Dewi]

I reckon woosh would be interested in this project.
Dewi, would you take a look at this new bike, the Zephyr-B. It has a big fat BPM motor, will cope well with Wesh hills, also folds, so can go into lilfts.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?zephyr-b

Thanks - it does look nice & robust. We wouldn't need the folding option as they would be parked outside but we would be interested in any automated billing system that could be used with the docking stations

 

[trex]

folding means easy service. Most of the electronics is hidden (and protected against water ingress) inside the frame.
Automated billing: do you need electronic release with RFID cards? if the campus have wifi everywhere, it's easy to implement on a web server.

 

[Dewi]

folding means easy service. Most of the electronics is hidden (and protected against water ingress) inside the frame.
Automated billing: do you need electronic release with RFID cards? if the campus have wifi everywhere, it's easy to implement on a web server.

That would be the ideal solution - we do have Wi-Fi & RFID cards are already being used widely to access bedrooms, gym facilities etc

 

[trex]

then most of the elements are there. The scheme would just use the existing access cards and billing system.
You'll need a lockup where bikes needing servicing will be kept. The service guy will then pop in with his van, fix the bikes and return them to the pool.
Do you have mains power where the bike stations are?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I hope you have good security systems otherwise the obvious will happen. The students will nick all the bits off the bikes for their own ones. You can run a bike hire system where a deposit is held and the bikes are inspected when they go out and come in, but as soon as you make it anonymous and unsupervised, everything will disappear. Somebody could nick a motor wheel and replace it with a normal one. When the next guy tries to take it out, he reports the missing motor (if you're lucky), but everybody denies responsibility. IMHO, the only way it can work when every part on the bike is non-standard, and everything is fixed in a way that they can't be easily removed.

Sorry to sound negative about your project. I'd love you to succeed, but you need to think about these things.

 

[Dewi]

then most of the elements are there. The scheme would just use the existing access cards and billing system.
You'll need a lockup where bikes needing servicing will be kept. The service guy will then pop in with his van, fix the bikes and return them to the pool.
Do you have mains power where the bike stations are?

Mains power will not be a problem, the idea is that the bikes will be managed by the halls FM provider & a deposit would be required to avoid thefts etc. We currently have a lock-up facility for traditional bikes run for the students.

 

[Dewi]

I hope you have good security systems otherwise the obvious will happen. The students will nick all the bits off the bikes for their own ones. You can run a bike hire system where a deposit is held and the bikes are inspected when they go out and come in, but as soon as you make it anonymous and unsupervised, everything will disappear. Somebody could nick a motor wheel and replace it with a normal one. When the next guy tries to take it out, he reports the missing motor (if you're lucky), but everybody denies responsibility. IMHO, the only way it can work when every part on the bike is non-standard, and everything is fixed in a way that they can't be easily removed.

Sorry to sound negative about your project. I'd love you to succeed, but you need to think about these things.

We do indeed! We already have some elements of this in place with the existing non-elec bike scheme but this will increase the rewards of bad behaviour. We are talking with our FM provider to see how they can help & what suggestions they can come up with. Thanks for your input

 

[trex]

one way round this is to offer the approved contractor/concessionary some free space or low rent and electricity to operate a hire scheme.
Hire contracts between students and private hirers are much more flexible. The students will then be made responsible to look after the bike when they are hiring it or they'd lose their deposit. The university can have a cut of the revenue to cover the use of space and electricity. In effect, a bike shop on the campus with the difference that if the scheme fails, the contractor does not risk much because he does not have to pay rent.

 

[Dewi]

one way round this is to offer the approved contractor/concessionary some free space or low rent and electricity to operate a hire scheme.
Hire contracts between students and private hirers are much more flexible. The students will then be made responsible to look after the bike when they are hiring it or they'd lose their deposit. The university can have a cut of the revenue to cover the use of space and electricity. In effect, a bike shop on the campus with the difference that if the scheme fails, the contractor does not risk much because he does not have to pay rent.

That's certainly the sort of discussion I'd like to initiate - do you have any company in mind?

 

[trex]

I know that Woosh had discussions with their local authorities 3 years ago about a similar shared e-bike scheme. They were not selected though, the contract went to a dealer supplying Giant e-bikes but maintenance was the big issue because of a) the users do not take care of the bikes, the bikes took a lot of abuse, so you need bikes built like Boris bikes, and b) when electrical things broke, they could not get spares from Giant. With hindsight, they should have gone with Woosh because parts aren't a problem, being on their doorstep.

 

[EddiePJ]

Contact Sussex University in Brighton. Apparently they have been conducting studies of e-bikes for many years now, and have sponsorships arrangements from a leading manufacturer. I believe that they approx 60 bikes, and if nothing else, they might be able to advise of your best way forward.

If you want to just run the bikes in a non educational capacity, then I'd have thought that the students would be young enough to pedal their own way around without the need electric assist. I'd also imagine that it could open a big can of worms in relation to insurance and liability.

 

[Dewi]

Contact Sussex University in Brighton. Apparently they have been conducting studies of e-bikes for many years now, and have sponsorships arrangements from a leading manufacturer. I believe that they approx 60 bikes, and if nothing else, they might be able to advise of your best way forward.

If you want to just run the bikes in a non educational capacity, then I'd have thought that the students would be young enough to pedal their own way around without the need electric assist. I'd also imagine that it could open a big can of worms in relation to insurance and liability.

Many thanks for the lead, in terms of topography we have a few steeper hills on our campus than Sussex, hence the interest in the electric assist. We'd have to extend our current insurance scheme to include the pedelecs but initial conversations have ben positive.

 

[wissy]

You really need to investigate what other cities do eg Boris bikes. Knowing Bangor University students the bikes will take some bashing . the rain and electrics?! battery life? security?

You would likely get bad press for not supporting local suppliers and remember you will need them for sorting problems locally. Evolution refuse to work on even basic manual stuff on electric bikes.

From my research I ended up getting a bosch sram bike (ktm macina and now haibike) because they had the gears to get me up Faenol hill and another hill to Greenwood. despite what people say you will need the gears on electric bikes. The hills in Bangor may be short but they are blydi steep.

Do all the bikes have to be the very same? i would imagine you would need more gearing and better bike for want of a better word for say students with disbilities or health issues such as asthma? Also age issues and frame sizes?

Do you have a set amount from the project's budget or have you got a grant somehow? Who will be responsible for maintenance and what of replacing bikes once depreciated etc? is it a one off and then who takes control after x amount of years?

anyhow. feel free to contact me if you want a spin on my bike to see what I mean about Bosch power and gears. Without me on it Porthaethwy Then you can try and compare other models.

I am sure some companies will be willing to send a test drive model if they think they may be in for a chance of sales of 50 bikes.

Remember that there are many many bikes which will simply not do the job in Bangor despite what might be said. Cheap is usally nasty I am afraid.

hwyl

 

[wissy]

I am sure that something could be thrashed out with beics menai a local social enterprise .. Aka Antur Waunfawr.....?

 

[Dewi]

Dear wissy,

Shame on me – it took a few minutes for me to realise where your bike was parked!

I’m already ahead of you on your first point – I know the guy who used to run Boris’ bikes and he’s making a few contacts for me. I’ve also spotted that the Highlands Council has started a scheme in Inverness – early days, it’s only been live a month – and they received funding from SSE (the same scheme that provided free loft insulation to domestic houses) so I’m in touch with them.

The questions re gears, all the same, frame sizes, disabilities etc are all up for discussion (Carol Tully is the project sponsor) and will need to be resolved as soon as we get funding. Originally, the funding was coming from the St Mary’s developer but that had to be channelled elsewhere when an oversight on our part was discovered. As you know, funds are tight within the University but Carol is still very keen to deliver the bikes so I started looking for funding elsewhere & spotted the Inverness scheme. http://www.highland.gov.uk/news/article/7766/carbon_clever_cycles_scheme_launches_in_inverness
Day-to-day maintenance etc is up for discussion with the St Mary’s FM provider who have the St Mary’s bikes (at least) factored into their services. We might have to extend this if SSE have an appetite to consider the whole campus. Replacement costs will have to be factored into the cost of hiring in some way, but again it’s up for discussion.
I don’t think I need to take you up on your kind offer of a spin on your bike but I would like to know what your bike thinks of the hill up to St Mary’s (Lon Pobty) if you’ve the inclination (sorry) to try it – it’s 1:7 which is a bit steeper than Faenol. I would also like to include you in any internal discussion that might follow a positive response from SSE.
Thanks for responding

Hwyl!
Dewi

You really need to investigate what other cities do eg Boris bikes. Knowing Bangor University students the bikes will take some bashing . the rain and electrics?! battery life? security?

You would likely get bad press for not supporting local suppliers and remember you will need them for sorting problems locally. Evolution refuse to work on even basic manual stuff on electric bikes.

From my research I ended up getting a bosch sram bike (ktm macina and now haibike) because they had the gears to get me up Faenol hill and another hill to Greenwood. despite what people say you will need the gears on electric bikes. The hills in Bangor may be short but they are blydi steep.

Do all the bikes have to be the very same? i would imagine you would need more gearing and better bike for want of a better word for say students with disbilities or health issues such as asthma? Also age issues and frame sizes?

Do you have a set amount from the project's budget or have you got a grant somehow? Who will be responsible for maintenance and what of replacing bikes once depreciated etc? is it a one off and then who takes control after x amount of years?

anyhow. feel free to contact me if you want a spin on my bike to see what I mean about Bosch power and gears. Without me on it Porthaethwy Then you can try and compare other models.

I am sure some companies will be willing to send a test drive model if they think they may be in for a chance of sales of 50 bikes.

Remember that there are many many bikes which will simply not do the job in Bangor despite what might be said. Cheap is usally nasty I am afraid.

hwyl

 

[Dewi]

I am sure that something could be thrashed out with beics menai a local social enterprise .. Aka Antur Waunfawr.....?

Another good idea - I haven't seen them around but will probably now you've mentioned them

 

[wissy]

if you ever go towards Felinheli take left turn to Llanberis and then second right into lane.. First one on right once you go underneath the flyover.. That is a steep hill.. Similar or steeper than Lon Bopty. Goes to Greenwood or another way to top of Felinheli... Go up that daily without a problem on my Haibike / KTM Bosch sram bikes but woulnt manage on a bike with less gears....

 

[Dewi]

if you ever go towards Felinheli take left turn to Llanberis and then second right into lane.. First one on right once you go underneath the flyover.. That is a steep hill.. Similar or steeper than Lon Bopty. Goes to Greenwood or another way to top of Felinheli... Go up that daily without a problem on my Haibike / KTM Bosch sram bikes but woulnt manage on a bike with less gears....

Hi,

I know that hill well & it probably is as steep as Lon Pobty – it goes past Ernie Dyson’s house (or at least one he was building 40 yrs ago!) at Pen Sgoens (sp?)