Unable to switch off Bearprint battery problem.

[bazwaldo]

Hello everyone.

Since last Saturday night my 36v 16ah "Silver Fish" battery on my Bearprint Ebike has somehow decided to be permanently switched on.
Normally I have to switch on the power using the supplied key.
It is probably very similar to your own Ebikes where first of all I have to push the key in while turning to the right to lock the battery into the slide rail.
Then I can turn the key to the right a second time to turn on the power which illuminates the power lights on the handlebar unit.
Now turning the key to the left to switch off the power no longer does so.

As soon as I slide the battery into place the power comes on with a pop as the battery makes contact with the terminals.
I am worried that if I leave the battery on the Bike while I am at work because I am unable to switch it off it will gradually become flat by the time I need to come home.
This is quite inconvenient as it means I have to remove the battery and take it into work each day.

I removed the top part of the battery and had a look inside and all the wires seem to be in place.
The key barrel is a sealed unit and there does not appear to be much I can do to resolve the problem.
I tried squirting some WD40 into the key hole to drive out any moisture which may have entered the barrel but this has not fixed the issue.
Normally when the switch is off the power indicator lights on the top of the battery housing do not work, at the moment they are permanently available when the button is pressed to check the charge.
Can anyone think of a solution to this problem?

If there is no simple solution I suppose that it will be necessary to somehow change the entire Key barrel with new keys, etc.
Thanks for any advice offered.

Best wishes to all.
Barry.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

These key switches do give problems from time to time. INHO the design is a bit marginal. I have a spare, if you want it. You might have to solder a new connector or something. Alternatively, if you're any good at wiring you could bypass the key switch and use an electronic one instead - assuming there's a bit of room in the top of the battery. An electronic one costs about £20 and still requires a small switch of your choice.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I forgot to ask. How many miles are you upp to now?

 

[bazwaldo]

Hello d8veh,
Thanks for your reply, unfortunately I do not have the required level of Boffinary skills to be able to put your suggestions into practise.
I will have to pay someone to sort it out for me.
Apart from this problem the old Bearprint is performing pretty good come rain come shine and I am on about 11,300 miles of commuting so far.
I can't be 100% exact as the original Cateye computer stopped working a couple of times and it's recent replacement a Sigma also briefly stopped after some heavy rain, after it dried out it started working again.
Last night it snowed as I came home so I brought the Sigma inside to let it dry out rather than leave on the bike in the garage.

Barry.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hello d8veh,
Thanks for your reply, unfortunately I do not have the required level of Boffinary skills to be able to put your suggestions into practise.
I will have to pay someone to sort it out for me.
Apart from this problem the old Bearprint is performing pretty good come rain come shine and I am on about 11,300 miles of commuting so far.
I can't be 100% exact as the original Cateye computer stopped working a couple of times and it's recent replacement a Sigma also briefly stopped after some heavy rain, after it dried out it started working again.
Last night it snowed as I came home so I brought the Sigma inside to let it dry out rather than leave on the bike in the garage.

Barry.

Where about are you?

 

[OldBob1]

Hi a bit of cling film can help to tempory keep moisture out of electrical gizmos.

 

[bazwaldo]

Where about are you?

Not too far from Bristol where we met that time with Funkylyn at the Ebike show.
Street in Somerset.

Is it possible to take the Key Barrel apart?
I am not sure how to remove the barrel and I would probably be at risk of zapping myself as I am no electrician!

Maybe one of the Venders like Juicybike might know how to fix this?
Probably it's happened to others before me.

Barry.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's easier to replace the whole switch than to take it apart and get it back together. Getting it apart is easy enough,but it's sprung loaded, which makes getting it back together tricky.

To replace it:
Undo 4 screws and pull off the top of the battery;
undo two screws that hold the lock;
wiggle the lock out;
wiggle the new one in;
do up the two screws that hold it in;
cut the two wires from the old switch;
twist them together with the ones on the new switch;
insulate them;
Screw the top of the battery back on.
Job done!
No chance of zapping yourself or doing any damage.
If you want to try it, send me your address by PM and I'll send you the switch.
It's better to solder the wires together if you can, or get somebody to do it for you, but twisting should be OK as long as you twist about 1 cm.

 

[wurly]

I'm not too far from you Barry.
If Dave sends you the switch, i can wire it in for you. Can you get the bike or battery to Yeovil?

 

[bazwaldo]

Wow thanks d8veh and wurly for your really kind offers of help.
Of course I will pay for any parts/postage/work done.
If I can get the barrel out I can just about manage some soldering.
Maybe I can try to fit a replacement myself.
Address PM'd.

Barry.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I didn't get your PM so I sent you my email address by PM so you can email your address to me.

 

[bazwaldo]

Latest update about the battery key switch issue.
Dave (d8veh) your spare barrel arrived promptly (thanks very much) and I tried to fit it this afternoon.
It is actually a slightly different size to the one in the battery being a little bit longer.
I managed to remove the original barrel and with it out noticed the 2 red wires connect very close to one another.
The solder from one lead appeared to be almost touching the adjacent 2nd wire connection.
I pushed the lead and solder away from the 2nd cable solder area and blow me down this has fixed the problem.
I was so surprised that in the end it was so easy to fix.
Somehow the vibrations/bumping while travelling must have caused the 2 connections to move together and touch.
Not a very clever design to have the 2 wires soldered only about 2mm apart.
Your replacement had the 2 red wires opposite each other 180% apart which has to be better.
All this means I need to return your spare barrel to you, please can you PM me with your address and I will get it posted back to you.
Sorry for any inconvenience caused, the first time I checked inside the top of the battery I was unable to see that the wires were so close together, I only noticed today after fully removing the barrel out of the top part.
I feel very lucky and grateful that this Forum has someone as knowledgeable and as kind and helpful as you as one of it's members.
I really appreciate the trouble you went to to send the spare barrel to me and I am sorry that in the end it was not needed.

Best wishes,
Barry.

 

[bazwaldo]

Another update and "about turn" for my battery problem.
Yesterday afternoon I got ready to Ebike home, I set off out of the works car park and the handle bar lights blinked and disappeared.
I tried turning the switch on and off and had intermittent battery strength lights on the handlebar.
After removing the battery and taking off the top I checked the 2 soldered wires on the key barrel which looked ok.
With the battery back in the bike it then just showed the first light flashing - this probably means something but I don't know what!
After a bit more faffing about all 4 lights all came back on and I returned the 12 miles home.
Just as I turned into my road it conked out and then no lights would come on at all.

Fortunately d8veh responded to my PM about returning the spare key barrel he very kindly sent me by advising I should keep it as it may still be needed.
Well this turned out to be spot on!
After I connected Dave's spare key barrel to the 2 battery wires by bareing them, twisting them together and then completing a pretty dodgy soldering job all was well again.
I wrapped some insulation tape around the joins.
Today I went to work and came home without any problems.
Coming home was into a fierce headwind, when I stopped after the 26 mile round trip there were 3 lights still on, after a few minutes all 4 lights were on!?!
This really surprised me.
Hopefully I will have some more trouble free mileage now.

Thanks again Dave for your kindness and help with my problem.
Best wishes,
Barry.

 

[Eaglerider]

Hi Bazwaldo,

My goodness you certainly have been bashing out the miles. I recall you changed your battery a while back, and based on 3 lights left (subsequently 4) after 26 miles it seems to be performing well, my battery seems to be ok still, returning about the same range.

I recently had to replace my controller, the general consensus was that water ingress had caused the failure. Its difficult not to get a soaking in current weather conditions. As such, I wonder if you have had any problems from water getting in the electrics. Being a commuter you must be riding in heavy rain quite a lot. I believe my Eagle is largely the same bike as yours, and wondered if you have made any mods to prevent water getting into the controller box under the battery. I'm thinking of filling the whole controller box with electrical sealing resin, but I'm also concerned about heat dissipation if I do this. Any ideas?

Best regards
Eaglerider

 

[JuicyBike]

Hi Bazwaldo,

My goodness you certainly have been bashing out the miles. I recall you changed your battery a while back, and based on 3 lights left (subsequently 4) after 26 miles it seems to be performing well, my battery seems to be ok still, returning about the same range.

I recently had to replace my controller, the general consensus was that water ingress had caused the failure. Its difficult not to get a soaking in current weather conditions. As such, I wonder if you have had any problems from water getting in the electrics. Being a commuter you must be riding in heavy rain quite a lot. I believe my Eagle is largely the same bike as yours, and wondered if you have made any mods to prevent water getting into the controller box under the battery. I'm thinking of filling the whole controller box with electrical sealing resin, but I'm also concerned about heat dissipation if I do this. Any ideas?

Best regards
Eaglerider

ER. You would be wise, if using your bike extensively in the wet, to seal the cable entry hole at the front of the control box, with silicon sealant. A little water can creep in there, aided by running along the cables.
Sealing the whole box would cause problems and lead to overheating of the controller itself.

 

[oigoi]

Coming home was into a fierce headwind, when I stopped after the 26 mile round trip there were 3 lights still on, after a few minutes all 4 lights were on!?!
This really surprised me.

I have found that my battery voltage will usually recover a bit when you stop using the bike and let it rest for a while, especially if the bike has been working hard. It is an illusion though as soon as you used the bike again the voltage drops back down I find

 

[Eaglerider]

Thank you for your response Juicy.
I have already sealed the cable entry holes both at the front of the box and the rear some months back, I did this as a precautionary measure as it seemed an obvious thing to do. The failed controller had some light corrosion on the end plates, but I would guess this would be in accordance with some condensation and general dampness.

The only other potential entry points are the side plates of the frame box and the surround of the battery contacts where the prongs stick up. I'm now considering sealing the side plate flanges with waterproof cloth tape, but leaving a small area open at the rear part of the plates to provide some drain point and a little ventilation. What do you reckon?

The bike's done 2000 miles over 16 months. I do ride in the wet occasionally, its unavoidable in the UK, and over Christmas I did endure some horrific rain storms. However, when I removed the circuit board of the old controller, there was no evidence of any staining or moisture ingress that I could see??

It may be that the controller decided to pack it in of it's own volition of course. I'm not complaining at all, but I would like to try and mitigate this happening again. Anything else you can think of?

Cheers
ER

 

[shemozzle999]

Hi Bazwaldo,

My goodness you certainly have been bashing out the miles. I recall you changed your battery a while back, and based on 3 lights left (subsequently 4) after 26 miles it seems to be performing well, my battery seems to be ok still, returning about the same range.

I recently had to replace my controller, the general consensus was that water ingress had caused the failure. Its difficult not to get a soaking in current weather conditions. As such, I wonder if you have had any problems from water getting in the electrics. Being a commuter you must be riding in heavy rain quite a lot. I believe my Eagle is largely the same bike as yours, and wondered if you have made any mods to prevent water getting into the controller box under the battery. I'm thinking of filling the whole controller box with electrical sealing resin, but I'm also concerned about heat dissipation if I do this. Any ideas?

Best regards
Eaglerider

Conformal coating the surface of the printed circuit board on both sides, as previously suggested, will seal the electronics from the elements.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=Conformal+coating&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

[JuicyBike]

Thank you for your response Juicy.
I have already sealed the cable entry holes both at the front of the box and the rear some months back, I did this as a precautionary measure as it seemed an obvious thing to do. The failed controller had some light corrosion on the end plates, but I would guess this would be in accordance with some condensation and general dampness.

The only other potential entry points are the side plates of the frame box and the surround of the battery contacts where the prongs stick up. I'm now considering sealing the side plate flanges with waterproof cloth tape, but leaving a small area open at the rear part of the plates to provide some drain point and a little ventilation. What do you reckon?

The bike's done 2000 miles over 16 months. I do ride in the wet occasionally, its unavoidable in the UK, and over Christmas I did endure some horrific rain storms. However, when I removed the circuit board of the old controller, there was no evidence of any staining or moisture ingress that I could see??

It may be that the controller decided to pack it in of it's own volition of course. I'm not complaining at all, but I would like to try and mitigate this happening again. Anything else you can think of?

Cheers
ER

Sounds like you've done enough and the Eagles controller has simply failed. They do. From what you say there were no internal signs of water damage, so the controller may have burned out due to over-heating or shorting at one of the many connectors attached. I'd concentrate on leaving plenty of air around the controller and dabbing a little silicon on each connector to help prevent shorting in the future. I don't think this will be an issue for you again with the tweaks you've already made.

 

[Eaglerider]

Shemozzle999,
Yes I do recall you suggesting this before. I did enquire and was informed that opening the controller case would likely void the warranty, accordingly I put that on the back burner as the new controller has a 12 month guarantee. Nonetheless, it does seem like a sensible thing to do. I assume the 'Conformal Coating' would not prejudice heat dissipation. For the moment I'll wait and see what happens, after all, the summer is coming soon!! If it fails again after a very wet ride then I'll have to give it a go. I would have thought this might be done at the point of manufacture, it shouldn't cost a great deal, but perhaps I'll get lucky with the new controller.

Juicy,
perhaps the failure was not water related as you suggest. It is significant that the failure was progressive over a period of around 70 miles of riding, and became increasingly evident until complete failure. I would have thought if water had got in with a resulting shorting of components, the failure would have been immediate and final.

I propose to put it down to experience. Even if I had to buy a new controller every 2000 miles I wouldn't mind because I have had so much fun riding the bike.

Thanks again both of you, it is your altruistic help and assistance that makes this forum so valuable.
kind regards
ER