Ummmm....banned ??
- Thread starter funkylyn
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There's a world of difference between disagreeing with the opinion others hold, and refusing to acknowledge that they have a right to express it. I don't agree with all that Eddieo, Indalo, or even Funkylyn or Flecc, write here some times.
However, to misquote someone more important than I, I'd defend to the hilt their right to express it.
Neither of the two banned individuals has been particularly rude or offensive, and I've been regularly reading this forum for four or five years now. Certainly strong opinions have been expressed from time to time, but then just look at some of the BS spouted by one or two of the vendors on here!
My view has always been that discussion forums need a few "strong" characters, to stimulate debate and to prevent discussions becoming thinly-veiled adverts for particular products.
Once a forum starts to lose, or throw out, long standing members with valuable, if sometimes controversial, opinions, then its usefulness becomes diluted, and new members seeking advice are less likely to get a balanced view.
However, to misquote someone more important than I, I'd defend to the hilt their right to express it.
Neither of the two banned individuals has been particularly rude or offensive, and I've been regularly reading this forum for four or five years now. Certainly strong opinions have been expressed from time to time, but then just look at some of the BS spouted by one or two of the vendors on here!
My view has always been that discussion forums need a few "strong" characters, to stimulate debate and to prevent discussions becoming thinly-veiled adverts for particular products.
Once a forum starts to lose, or throw out, long standing members with valuable, if sometimes controversial, opinions, then its usefulness becomes diluted, and new members seeking advice are less likely to get a balanced view.
I've no doubt some may have been offended, but by offensive I really meant the term as used in a legal sense. For example, referring to someone that you vehemently disagree with as "pondlife" isn't offensive by any reasonable legal definition. It's not particularly complementary, but then vendors who seek to pull the wool of the eyes of potential customers aren't exactly being respectful, either.
I've read most of the spats here over the years, but honestly can't see why so much fuss is being made over them. I've heard far worse several times over on pretty much every day that I spent working in the US, for example, and no one there thought it was anything out of the ordinary.
I've rather people were honest and forthright when expressing opinions than pretend to believe something different.
One of them has been in far too many rows over the years,although he has been better behaved of late,i have in the past become involved in a difference of opinion,and recieved private messages from him,trying to continue an argument off forum where even more sarcastic inflaming remarks go unnoticed,i hope this time the ban is permanent good riddance,on your bike or off in your camp van,
C
Cyclezee
Guest
Well said Oigoi.The morals of this story seem to be
1) if you're a trader be professional and don't bulls**t people because there are plenty on here who know the reality of things
2) Dont go hurling insults around at other members, keep your cool
Do you mean that eddieo may have re-joined the forum under a different user name?
Well, lets smoke him out:
The Tonaro Big Hit is an elegant bike which is blessed with striking good looks. One might say that it is a real head-turner, the sort of bike which you have always long for but didn't realise until that moment when gaze fell upon beautifully formed aluminium.
It's manly and erect truck windscreen wiper motor makes a bold and purposeful statement, suggesting that it will take any any other electric bike straight up the saddle bag. The Big-Hit looks poised and rampant, a potent combination.
The Tonaro is garnished with some of the finest bicycle components known to mankind. Hence, the quality and longevity of this machine is put beyond question. Famous cyclist Derek Taylor of Stoke on Trent has been so impressed with his Big Hit that he is currently planning to go to Belgium. There is no word yet as to whether his plans include taking the Big Hit with him.
Any New Members responding to this with low post counts are likely to be eddieo.
ps Who is HelenJ? When did he join the forum?
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[tongue-in-cheek-mode]
I think that is deeply offensive. No forum member should be allowed to express such an obviously false opinion, especially as it may cause upset with one or two forum sponsors. You should be thrown off the forum immediately for this post.
As for the famous D***k T**lor of Stoke, surely he should be consulted before his name is used here, or else this forum runs the risk of doing something illegal (oh, wait a minute, I've just remembered that this forum is entirely focussed on what is, to all intents and purposes, a wholly illegal activity....................................).
[/tongue-in-cheek-mode]
On a more serious note, if the forum owner/admins wish to bias debates and censor/edit posts then that is entirely their prerogative.
My only concern is that it should be made very clear to anyone who contributes or reads this forum that they may not be getting a balanced view, and that commercial pressures or the personal views of the censors may be influencing what is allowed to be said and what is not. Nothing wrong with this as long as everyone understands it, it's no different from deliberately buying a right-wing tabloid expecting to read politically biased reporting.
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C
Cyclezee
Guest
I already have couple of new member ID's ready for my self as suggested by Eddie a while back. Pondlife and Mr.Kit..........any other suggestions
WIZZ-PERI already have couple of new member ID's ready for my self as suggested by Eddie a while back. Pondlife and Mr.Kit..........any other suggestions
Just as well stir-up someone else
Waldorf & Statler are already reserved......
How about Mr Squeaky Clean ....I already have couple of new member ID's ready for my self as suggested by Eddie a while back. Pondlife and Mr.Kit..........any other suggestions
Seriously, the thought occurs to me .....can Eddieo still read this forum, but just have to impotently stand by and not be able to respond....... ?
If so, we had better go easy on the Tonaro praising, we dont want to be responsible for any spontaneous combustion from that quarter.......I mean, really, it would just be TOO cruel........wouldnt it ??
Lynda
Although both Eddieo and Indalo have been deleted as members, they can still read this forum, much as I've done over the years, without the need to log on. I've been in touch with Eddieo, and have heard his side, and it does indeed seem as if the "new regime" chose this moment to just get rid of him, not for what was written either privately or publicly over this latest issue (none of which was either offensive or out of order, BTW) but maybe because there seems to be a new agenda here by the management. I strongly suspect that this is business related, and the members here are really just viewed as business assets, to be best used to ensure profitability in these tough times.
One of the reasons I chose to stay way from here for a few years (I joined way back in 2007, only a year or so after the venerable flecc) was because of the way things were influenced here. I had thought this forum was relatively free from bias from the admin/moderation team, but it seems that things are changing now.
I've seen a few longstanding members of other forums who got to think their feet were well under the table.
Management then issues a reminder about who is boss, which usually amounts to a swift beheading, or in this case, two swift beheadings.
I've not been around here long enough to know all the history, but it seems to me Eddie had got a bit too free and easy with the insults.
It may be management had their eye on a few of us, and decided action was also needed to discourage the others.
On the face of it, Indalo has more cause to complain of harsh treatment.
But both may have forgotten another golden rule of forums - you are only as good as your last post.
Management then issues a reminder about who is boss, which usually amounts to a swift beheading, or in this case, two swift beheadings.
I've not been around here long enough to know all the history, but it seems to me Eddie had got a bit too free and easy with the insults.
It may be management had their eye on a few of us, and decided action was also needed to discourage the others.
On the face of it, Indalo has more cause to complain of harsh treatment.
But both may have forgotten another golden rule of forums - you are only as good as your last post.
Hmmm....I thought so ......not that I think that they will, Im sure they both have a life apart from being on here......
I dont know what you mean by new regime, business related, or new agenda.......its a bike forum not MI 5.......and Im certain I dont feel like a 'business asset'......I just want to learn about electric bikes, keep up to date, and occasionally have a bit of light hearted banter with like minded people, some of whom have become good friends.
At the end of the day, what has to be accepted is that both men were under a publicly stated final warning and told in no uncertain terms that the next time it would be the red card without further discussion.
Eddieo had got away with a few more comments that were 'bordering' on personal insults and I presume that Russ had finally had enough, he had already just warned them about flaming.
Which, incidentally brought forth a comment from eddie that he had had to look that up on google as he didnt know what flaming meant.....I mean, really ?
None of us know the full facts, you only have eddies side of it, we have to accept Russ' judgement....end of.....
Theres really no point in raking over the ashes of it all now, basically, if we want to continue to enjoy this forum we have to abide by the rules...as on any other public forum. no insults , no deliberate flaming for a start.....if not......the 'portal' is open........we are free to leave.....
Lynda
It's a fact of life that most internet forums are businesses. They cost money to run and generate an income for those that set them up. Forum members are, in effect, just like unpaid workers. The contributions we make (voluntarily) add value by attracting a wider readership, which then makes the site more attractive to advertisers.Hmmm....I thought so ......not that I think that they will, Im sure they both have a life apart from being on here......
I dont know what you mean by new regime, business related, or new agenda.......its a bike forum not MI 5.......and Im certain I dont feel like a 'business asset'......I just want to learn about electric bikes, keep up to date, and occasionally have a bit of light hearted banter with like minded people, some of whom have become good friends.
At the end of the day, what has to be accepted is that both men were under a publicly stated final warning and told in no uncertain terms that the next time it would be the red card without further discussion.
Eddieo had got away with a few more comments that were 'bordering' on personal insults and I presume that Russ had finally had enough, he had already just warned them about flaming.
Which, incidentally brought forth a comment from eddie that he had had to look that up on google as he didnt know what flaming meant.....I mean, really ?
None of us know the full facts, you only have eddies side of it, we have to accept Russ' judgement....end of.....
Theres really no point in raking over the ashes of it all now, basically, if we want to continue to enjoy this forum we have to abide by the rules...as on any other public forum. no insults , no deliberate flaming for a start.....if not......the 'portal' is open........we are free to leave.....
Lynda
It's a simple business model that works well, which is why forums are now bought and sold, often for fairly large sums of money. Some of the bigger forums, such as those originally started by car enthusiasts for example, change hands for surprisingly large sums and generate a great deal of advertising revenue.
This forum was established and is run as a commercial venture, not a charitable act. We, the members, have no rights, and have to expect that we are only allowed to have discussions here that generally align with the wishes of the site owners. This is no different to the letters page in a newspaper, where the editor/owner sets out what can and cannot be published, based on whether or not it will increase newspaper sales.
There are very few "non-monetized" internet forums around now, virtually all of them are businesses that use member contributions to raise viewing figures and hence advertising revenue. I'm amazed that people, who freely use other highly commercial web site like Facebook et al, still believe that internet discussion forums are public and for free debate. The vast majority are just commercially owned businesses, like many others.
All fair points, but this forum does have a history of deleting or locking threads, some of which contain nothing more than a report about a customer's personal experience with a product or a retailer. No insults, just a report of their experience. Result > Thread removed or locked. Threads concerning Justebikes and 50 Cycles are two examples.Hmmm....I thought so ......not that I think that they will, Im sure they both have a life apart from being on here......
I dont know what you mean by new regime, business related, or new agenda.......its a bike forum not MI 5.......and Im certain I dont feel like a 'business asset'......I just want to learn about electric bikes, keep up to date, and occasionally have a bit of light hearted banter with like minded people, some of whom have become good friends.
At the end of the day, what has to be accepted is that both men were under a publicly stated final warning and told in no uncertain terms that the next time it would be the red card without further discussion.
Eddieo had got away with a few more comments that were 'bordering' on personal insults and I presume that Russ had finally had enough, he had already just warned them about flaming.
Which, incidentally brought forth a comment from eddie that he had had to look that up on google as he didnt know what flaming meant.....I mean, really ?
None of us know the full facts, you only have eddies side of it, we have to accept Russ' judgement....end of.....
Theres really no point in raking over the ashes of it all now, basically, if we want to continue to enjoy this forum we have to abide by the rules...as on any other public forum. no insults , no deliberate flaming for a start.....if not......the 'portal' is open........we are free to leave.....
Lynda
I think this illustrates the point that commercial pressures, or perhaps just site owner/administrator preferences, will often influence discussion content and direction.
I was a member of another forum, that on the face of it did not seem to be particularly commercial. The funding model for that was slightly unusual, in that as well as generating advertising revenue from sponsors, members posts were also edited and published in a printed magazine. At a guess, based on the size of the article in the magazine, and also from my experience as a part-time contributor to a few magazines, I'd say that the edited and published posts added another £200 to £300 of revenue from the forum to each edition.
Curiously, in the latter case, the site owner had very forcefully expressed views on forbidden topics of discussion and used the forum as a way of publicising his views to a wider audience. This included editing and deleting any posts that disagreed with his views and altering the context of threads so that they no longer aligned with the views that had originally been expressed. This went virtually unnoticed for a fair time, until some of us went back and read some older posts for reference and realised what was going on. As soon as this behaviour was posted it got the members concerned banned, simply for trying to reveal what had been going on.
I strongly suspect this goes on in other forums, too, although I'm not suggesting it happens here in the same way.
It seems the motives for censoring and banning, are starting to become more evident. Clearly critism of site advertisers products is frowned upon . I personally will not critise, or RECOMMEND any further products on this site, this B...S... works both ways.
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