UKIP Manifesto

[flecc]

I'm not convinced that a 1.6 trillion pound debt owed by a country which is borrowing billions to give away to other countries makes any sense at all and the concept makes the debt even more terrifying. I am very much in favour of reducing our country's outgoings on this type of vanity exercise

As you see, the size of the debt isn't historically particularly large.

As for both borrowing and lending, all leading countries do the same and it is not as nonsensical as it superficially looks.

Net indebtedness is the way in which currencies can be valued relative to each other, and known currency value relationships are what makes world trade possible. That's what ratings indices like the Standard and Poors one are all about.

Without net debt no value could be attributed to a country and currency to enable trade and we'd be reduced to racially based and/or prejudicial judgments with all their hopeless inaccuracies.

Since we have been downgraded one small step at present, our net debt situation relative to our GDP is a bit too high. Therefore the current task is to reach balance, i.e. preventing any further growth in the debt, and then follow by either increasing our GDP or reducing the debt. Which is chosen will be determined by the national and international prospects at the time.
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[JohnCade]

Arguably the balance of payments with the rest of the world and the current account deficit part is far more worrying than outright debt or the budget deficit which gets so much attention now.

In 1970 when Labour lost the election they expected to win Wilson blamed the delivery of a couple of Boeing 747s to BA which tipped the balance of payments into the red just before the poll. Back then the papers were full of the balance of payments, but now it hardly gets a mention. Yet the current account deficit on money flows with the rest of the world then was tiny compared to how it has grown in the last thirty years. It’s the way of knowing if we’ve paying out way in the world, and we’re not.

Ever since 1985 we have imported much more than we have have exported and that includes services. The current account deficit now is huge and still growing.

 

[flecc]

True John, and it's our low productivity that makes us compare so unfavourably with countries such as the USA and many EU ones, Even France does much better than us in that respect and it makes us very uncompetitive.

That problem has to be solved if we are to make real progress in reducing the current account deficit, since we are running out of acceptable cutbacks to solve our problems by economies.
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[mike killay]

As far as I can make out,
Savage Tory cuts are the same as Labour Economies.
The LibDems are afraid to offer anything of substance in case they get elected again.
Plaid Cymru want to return to an all Welsh speaking, mythical 18th century peasant economy.
UKIP just want to go back to the 1950s.

 

[trex]

meanwhile, our current account is propped up by non-doms buying into properties in London. How long can our politicians continue making 'commitments' to the students, the pensioners, the NHS, the army and the disabled in their manifestos?

 

[JohnCade]

As far as I can make out,
Savage Tory cuts are the same as Labour Economies.
The LibDems are afraid to offer anything of substance in case they get elected again.
Plaid Cymru want to return to an all Welsh speaking, mythical 18th century peasant economy.
UKIP just want to go back to the 1950s.

The difference between Labour and Conservatives on budget deficit reduction is that the Tories want a surplus by 2020 and Labour wants to reduce it but not eliminate it by then, while putting up some taxes for the better off. That means that it’s possible for Labour to make much smaller cuts than those which the Tories plan and still meet their plans. If good growth returns and stays possibly no major cuts at all.

Labour will put the top income tax rate back to 50% for those earning over 150K, and the so called mansion tax and other taxes on large finance like hedge funds. While the Tories plan budget cuts without any tax increases for the better off. But they would almost certainly put up VAT. Because they always do and they alway say they won’t. VAT is the most regressive tax of all and the one least likely to be felt by the well off.

 

[mike killay]

John,
Never, ever believe a politician.

 

[flecc]

the Tories plan budget cuts without any tax increases for the better off. But they would almost certainly put up VAT. Because they always do and they alway say they won’t. VAT is the most regressive tax of all and the one least likely to be felt by the well off.

Definitely possible, since others in the EU generally have higher rates.

These tiddlers, Malta, Luxembourg and Cyprus have lower than the UK's 20% rate, but the only large country having a lower rate at 19% is Germany who can afford it.

The rest have from 20% to 25% with many in between, so I can definitely see 2 or 3% added here.
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[4bound]

David Cameron did promise not to increase VAT at PMQ on 24 March. So that means that he will/won't depending on how much you believe him. Of course he denied intending to raise it before the last election but then raised it from 17.5 to 20%.

This time he will not be able to blame the previous government.

 

[Croxden]

My dad always said you can tell when a politician is lying,
He is either wearing a bowler hat or his lips are moving.

Sly Devils have stopped wearing bowler hats.

 

[4bound]

I've just read the UKIP Manifesto. It seems to contain plenty of common sense and unlike the others, gives an indication as to where the money is coming from. I like it.

You must have read a different one to the one I just read! Seems to be a lot of knee jerk reactions to problems that are not problems mixed with a measure of lunacy and a desire to go backwards in time.

Issues like "welfare tourism" may attract support, but in reality its a tiny problem. Recently arrived migrants pay far more into the UK than they take out.

Abolish inheritance tax for the wealthy? Really?

Abolish foreign aid? We are the sixth wealthiest country in the world due to our exploitation of our "colonies" in the past. Are we now to turn our back on those in desperate need?

 

[Jimod]

I lived in Germany for 17 years. They're far more efficient than any Brit will ever be, so I don't blame him

I worked for a large German company and found their working chaps were no more efficient than Brits. Sometimes they were a lot less efficient. Like us, they took tea breaks and smoke breaks.
The BIG difference was, their management respected the workers a WHOLE lot more than UK firms.

 

[tillson]

Seems to be a lot of knee jerk reactions to problems that are not problems mixed with a measure of lunacy and a desire to go backwards in time.

Issues like "welfare tourism" may attract support, but in reality its a tiny problem. Recently arrived migrants pay far more into the UK than they take out.

Abolish inheritance tax for the wealthy? Really?

Abolish foreign aid? We are the sixth wealthiest country in the world due to our exploitation of our "colonies" in the past. Are we now to turn our back on those in desperate need?

I have to disagree over your opinion that the policy is lunacy. Re deploying highly trained and disciplined men and women retiring from the armed forces into the prison service, border agency and police seems an excellent and sensible use of their skills and training. These are the people we owe a debt of gratitude to, not people who despises our way of life and come to our country preaching hatred.

Regarding the historical exploitation of the colonies, it was wrong and in many cases evil, but I do not feel any responsibility for the deeds of others which were carried out before I was born. If you feel the need to send money oversees as a kind of apology, then you should send your own in the form of a charitable donation, as I do to selected organisations. Foreign Aid is as an outrageous scandle with little, if any of the money getting to where it is required. Foreign Aid needs to be stopped, it's unpopular with the public. That money is needed here for the people of Britain.

 

[4bound]

I have to disagree over your opinion that the policy is lunacy. Re deploying highly trained and disciplined men and women retiring from the armed forces into the prison service, border agency and police seems an excellent and sensible use of their skills and training. These are the people we owe a debt of gratitude to, not people who despises our way of life and come to our country preaching hatred.
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I did suspect you might!

 

[the_killjoy]

The trouble is that most of us end up just voting for the party that has the least number of policies we object to -unless the local candidate is an idiot or a rogue in which case we are stuffed.

 

[mike killay]

What is the difference between exploiting colonies and pinching all the Doctors, Nurses, Engineers etc. from ex-colonies?

 

[4bound]

Re deploying highly trained and disciplined men and women retiring from the armed forces into the prison service, border agency and police seems an excellent and sensible use of their skills and training. These are the people we owe a debt of gratitude to, not people who despises our way of life and come to our country preaching hatred.

I am not really sure why you link these two sentences together, but that is what UKIP do repeatedly. They mention a perceived problem and they prescribe what appears for a second to be a possible solution without really working out the implications.
Are you suggesting that people who hate the UK are able to move here from other countries and then get a job in those organisations? I worked in one of those organisations for some years and did not see any cases of this. in fact I only ever met one immigrant who had gained such employment. He was a white South African who loved the UK. You may be able to drag up one or two examples from the gutter press, but they are very much the exception. I did see many people with a background in the forces who had made the transition. It would be a dreadful mistake though to think every one who leaves the armed forces is suitable for these roles which require a different skill set.

 

[4bound]

What is the difference between exploiting colonies and pinching all the Doctors, Nurses, Engineers etc. from ex-colonies?

You don't say what you think or what you think the solution is? The difference is that one was done by force, the other is voluntary. However I agree that this process weakens the loosing countries and strengthens ours. yet another reason for us to continue with foreign aid.

 

[4bound]

Of course we are a cycling forum, so what are UKIPS views on cycling. The huge UKIP 2015 manifesto does not mention it once. The 2010 version said Cyclists should be obliged to dismount and walk around roundabouts, the party believed, have compulsory insurance and pay for bike parking.

Ok that was 5 years ago, what do they think now? Search the web for UKIP and cycling and there is nothing positive. A recent example was this leaflet which infuriates me so much I will leave it to the mirror to comment.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-declares-war-cycle-lanes-5511100

If you prefer a broadsheet view try this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational-cycling/10846025/Cyclists-dont-vote-for-an-anti-cycling-party.html

 

[oldtom]

Among many comments in various online forums as to the plausibility and star rating of the protagonists in last evening's debate, I particularly like this one: 'Farage looked like a fascist version of 'Boycie' from 'Only Fools And Horses'.

Tom