UK to Harmonise Electric Bike Law with Europe?

[flecc]

Is a plate like this going to be needed on the frame with the max cutoff speed on there too, or is my motor info sticker on the motor still ok ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Electric-bike-Bicycle-Rating-Plate-legal-requirement-VIN-Plate-Essentials-/111513589695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19f6ba57bf

For existing e-bikes made before 1st April 2015 the plate is not required.

For kit bikes following that date, i.e. when a motor is added to an unpowered bike, the position is unclear since no provision has been made for them. One assumes the Vehicle Inspectorate when testing for single vehicle approval will require one on the bike to conform to the regulations.
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[trex]

would this bike qualify as a pedelec?

- 7-seater
- motor power 1000W
- huge brakes
- 120kgs

 

[flecc]

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[flecc]

The 1000 watts rating bars it as a pedelec, but it can be type approved as a Low Powered Moped in the L1e-A class if assist speed limited to 15.6 mph. The weight doesn't matter since they fall into two approval brackets, under or over 35 kilos.

Then no registration or insurance would be necessary.
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[shambolic]

Phew, just ploughed my way through all this legaleeze! ...and really only have just a hint of what is/isn't allowed. So I figure for clarity I shall ask where I stand in regards my specific situation. This will help others as I know there are many in similar circumstances. It really doesn't matter so much where percentage wise people with disabilities stand in the overall picture there are many who could well come onboard if things were clearer and the profile of E-bikes was greater. I am regularly asked when out on my current bike, by people with mobility problems about electric bikes and if they reach a tipping point where they become more common place, loads of such people would come on board. The current mobility vehicles are only allowed a max of 9 mph, they are heavy overly large, old technology and cost 3 times the price of an E-Bike. Anyone with Mobility issues that can use an E-bike would be foolish not to.... many with such issues cannot get a licence for anything and using bike lanes are also a godsend...So the questions.

1) Can I still buy an E-bike with a throttle prior to Jan 2016 and still use it legally afterwards?
2) As a disabled person can I use a throttle on a 250w bike even after that time on a newly bought bike?
3) Do these classified bikes up to 1000w need some kind of licence? (great if they didn't)

 

[flecc]

So the questions.

1) Can I still buy an E-bike with a throttle prior to Jan 2016 and still use it legally afterwards?

Technically no if it hasn't been type approved, but I don't see this being enforced before January 2016. For example dealers still have existing stocks and they normally have a period of grace to sell with such regulation changes, typically six months

2) As a disabled person can I use a throttle on a 250w bike even after that time on a newly bought bike?

If the bike has been type approved, yes, it's still an EAPC. Currently only Freego-Wisper have said they will type approve their models, and hopefully they will keep to that and others follow.

3) Do these classified bikes up to 1000w need some kind of licence?

I'm afraid a driving licence is necessary, new group Q, but I don't know if CBT etc is necessary. It probably is. Car drivers who obtained a full licence before 1st February 2001 are pre-qualified.

So long as it's type approved, limited to 15.6 mph assist speed and 1000 watts rating or less, no insurance, registration or number plate is required. It isn't classed as an EAPC though, it doesn't even have to have pedals, it's a Low Powered Moped class AM in law.
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[richardg6paj]

1) Can I still buy an E-bike with a throttle prior to Jan 2016 and still use it legally afterwards?

Technically no if it hasn't been type approved, but I don't see this being enforced before January 2016. For example dealers still have existing stocks and they normally have a period of grace to sell with such regulation changes, typically six months

2) As a disabled person can I use a throttle on a 250w bike even after that time on a newly bought bike?

If the bike has been type approved, yes, it's still an EAPC. Currently only Freego-Wisper have said they will type approve their models, and hopefully they will keep to that and others follow.

3) Do these classified bikes up to 1000w need some kind of licence?

I'm afraid a driving licence is necessary, new group Q, but I don't know if CBT etc is necessary. It probably is. Car drivers who obtained a full licence before 1st February 2001 are pre-qualified.

So long as it's type approved, limited to 15.6 mph assist speed and 1000 watts rating or less, no insurance, registration or number plate is required. It isn't classed as an EAPC though, it doesn't even have to have pedals, it's a Low Powered Moped class AM in law.
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Would be interesting to do a CBT on an ebike! Would I then be able to ride a 125cc Motorbike on that same CBT

 

[flecc]

Would be interesting to do a CBT on an ebike! Would I then be able to ride a 125cc Motorbike on that same CBT

Yes!

It's a parallel of the situation back in the 1950s when adding a tiny petrol cyclemotor as little as 25cc to their bicycle meant a full motorcycle licence was needed. Of course those going for the driving test on their assisted bicycle were treated easily, almost nodded through.

Trouble was, they could them leap onto a 1000cc Vincent Black Shadow and ride it to 125 mph. There was of course no national speed limit those days, once away from the town 30mph limit any speed was ok.
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[anotherkiwi]

Correction 150.313 m.p.h in your underwear!

1B/900 was a factory-built racer, but as there was no plan to market such a version as a separate model when it was built, the bike began life as a Black Shadow even though it was later referred to as a Black Lightning by the factory.

 

[flecc]

Correction 150.313 m.p.h in your underwear!

1B/900 was a factory-built racer, but as there was no plan to market such a version as a separate model when it was built, the bike began life as a Black Shadow even though it was later referred to as a Black Lightning by the factory.

The road Black Shadow which to my recollection came first had a declared top speed of 125 mph, one of our customers had one. It was an upgrade on the existing 110 mph Rapide. They then made a racing version, at first also still called Black Shadow, but later renamed Black Lightning.
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[Peter Thornton]

I’ve not read through all of the 7 pages so apologies if someone else has made this point.
I’m a local Councillor who promotes cycling and is trying to create more cycle paths and shared use paths. I’m also in touch with SUSTRANS who are reviewing the National Cycle Network and looking for funding on the basis of shared paths.
Believe me, cyclists are not universally popular - you probably already know that .........
I honestly believe that the sight of cyclists zooming along without pedalling will lead to a call to ban ebikes from shared use paths and even cycle paths as such.
I think there’s a case for a lightweight electric moped class with a simple registration regime and low cost insurance, but lets not confuse this with ebikes. I think the regulations are pretty good as they are and any beefing up of ebikes will lead to unintended consequences.

 

[richardg6paj]

[QUOTE=" I think the regulations are pretty good as they are and any beefing up of ebikes will lead to unintended consequences.[/QUOTE] From my experience with my ebike I think the regulations are too restrictive on power, 250 watts is not enough in my opinion. It is adequate on a flat road with a slight headwind and a rider of average weight, but when faced with a headwind, a larger than average rider and a long drag up a hill, 250 watts is really struggling. A 1000 watts would be more realistic. The speed can still be restricted, but let's make it 25mph, so that ebikes can keep up with push bikes and also town traffic. My opinion of course, but that's how I feel about the ebike scene at the moment.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

From my experience with my ebike I think the regulations are too restrictive on power, 250 watts is not enough in my opinion. It is adequate on a flat road with a slight headwind and a rider of average weight, but when faced with a headwind, a larger than average rider and a long drag up a hill, 250 watts is really struggling. A 1000 watts would be more realistic. The speed can still be restricted, but let's make it 25mph, so that ebikes can keep up with push bikes and also town traffic. My opinion of course, but that's how I feel about the ebike scene at the moment.

250w is not the limit. There is no limit on peak assistance. Its 250w nominal, ie essentially average. Which is way more than most normal cyclists. So the power isn't a problem. Unless of course you're using a poorer quality motor. There is certainly no need for 1000w. eBikes are supposed to get someone up to the level of a cyclists... and not to the level of a motorbike.

Just some numbers to back up my point.

http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/691/chris-froome-s-numbers-what-do-they-really-mean

Froome, FTP - which is essentially the same as the Nominal power limit on eBikes. Froome - 419w.

So compare that to an eBike with 250w + rider, you're pretty close to the faster rider on the planet.

1000w nominal power limit would give you 2.5x the power the worlds best cyclists.

You're never going to win an argument for more power, if you want the bike to be legally classed as a bicycle. There is already a class for your electric vehicle and its a moped class.

 

[anotherkiwi]

About 450 W for an hour for top riders. Just under 200 W for an hour for NASA's "healthy men" - I think I may qualify for that rating at the moment with my recent 32 km/h average speed.

All 250 W rated motors will run for an hour at 450 W if you have enough battery on board, the controller might get a little warm but the motor certainly won't from my experience.

 

[richardg6paj]

I never said 250w was the limit. 1000w would be more realistic and useful in my opinion. However, on the Gov.uk website, it clearly states.

• must have a maximum power output of 250 watts

 

[anotherkiwi]

I never said 250w was the limit. 1000w would be more realistic and useful in my opinion. However, on the Gov.uk website, it clearly states.

• must have a maximum power output of 250 watts

That is a mistake we have already discussed here on the forum a couple of years back - it should read "nominative maximum power output of 250 W" as does EN 15194.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I never said 250w was the limit. 1000w would be more realistic and useful in my opinion. However, on the Gov.uk website, it clearly states.

• must have a maximum power output of 250 watts

You've said 250w is not enough... we're trying to show you that you aren't limited to 250w... there is no peak power limit.

Of course you want more power, and if you do, you are able to get more power and speed. You just need a license and pay a bit of tax to use it, plus it counts as a motorbike so you can't use it where bicycles go.

1000w is way more than a normal cyclist can put out for more than a few seconds, so expecting it to be legally classed as a bicycle is wrong and pushing for it could jeapordise the great situation we're currently in.

 

[richardg6paj]

You've said 250w is not enough... we're trying to show you that you aren't limited to 250w... there is no peak power limit.

Of course you want more power, and if you do, you are able to get more power and speed. You just need a license and pay a bit of tax to use it, plus it counts as a motorbike so you can't use it where bicycles go.

1000w is way more than a normal cyclist can put out for more than a few seconds, so expecting it to be legally classed as a bicycle is wrong and pushing for it could jeapordise the great situation we're currently in.

And I still say 250w which is the maximum continuous rated power is not enough. an ebike is a lot heavier than a world champions racing cycle, I find it ridiculous to compare the two situations

 

[anotherkiwi]

If you look at the graph above 1000 W is a super athlete pedaling like a mad man for 3 seconds on an ergo-meter. Any 350-500 W geared hub motor with a 25 Amp controller and a 48v battery will give you 1000 W at the wheel, it won't be road legal though. My GSM with a 20 Amp controller and a fully charged 48v battery will give the same but as Woosh says it won't last very long if you do that every day.

In the end you will find that a 250 W nominative motor with 48v battery is plenty enough power for day to day use with a 15 Amp or a 17 Amp controller.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

And I still say 250w which is the maximum continuous rated power is not enough. an ebike is a lot heavier than a world champions racing cycle is, I find it rediculous to to compare the two situations

Yes, and I'm afraid you're simply wrong.

I know this, because we run race teams and sponsor some of the faster cyclists in the country.

On a totally road legal 250w eBike... my wife can beat them.