UK legal rear hub 48 volt kit?

If anyone can link me to a UK legal rear hub motor kit, that runs at 48v, you'll be my hero. Preferably no throttle, only PAS. Wheel size 20" and upwards.

I've not come across any though how about over volting a 250w kit, panda offer a kit build service and you can have a 20" rear hub in rim. Throttle an option you don't have to fit.

Use a 48v controller instead of a stock 36v though 36v should be ok.

I've not come across any though how about over volting a 250w kit, panda offer a kit build service and you can have a 20" rear hub in rim. Throttle an option you don't have to fit.

Use a 48v controller instead of a stock 36v though 36v should be ok.

I know that the voltage doesn't come into the legality issue and a 250w motor will tick the right box too. It's controlling the cut-off that'll be an issue. Do you know any 48v controllers that are top speed programmable through the display?

My dual voltage KT controller has speed link for legal 15.5mph or disconnect for 30% increase, I am naughty so can get 20mph with my 201 rpm hub. Combined with a lcd2 parameters can be set for speed, wheel size, metric or imperial etc.

My dual voltage KT controller has speed link for legal 15.5mph or disconnect for 30% increase.

Where did you get the controller? mine doesn't have that link to disconnect.

My s09p controller from BMSbattery is dual voltage - 36 / 48v. Speed cutout is apparently adjustable from the display. 22amp limit current, but adjustable in steps down to a limit current of 11amp, so pretty versatile.

Where did you get the controller? mine doesn't have that link to disconnect.

 

PSWPower.com, 20a Sine wave.

The pas is dual mode and can be set via the lcd for speed or torque control, torque/ amps are controlled by the 5 assist levels, noticeable on level ground and certainly noticeable on inclines.

Edited May 16, 20178 yr by Nealh

Sorry but 48 V nominative is the legal maximum in EN 15194...

Sorry but 48 V nominative is the legal maximum in EN 15194...

.

 

And that is all that is being discussed.

I was just reacting to [mention=2972]Fordulike[/mention] saying: "I know that the voltage doesn't come into the legality issue", it does unfortunately because I really like the idea of a 52 V battery like those made by Lunacycle...

I know that the voltage doesn't come into the legality issue and a 250w motor will tick the right box too. It's controlling the cut-off that'll be an issue. Do you know any 48v controllers that are top speed programmable through the display?

... Actually the voltage does come into the legality issue. The EPAC regulations specify a maximum voltage of 48v in order to escape the additional requirements of being classified as an ebike rather than an electrically assisted bike. So 48v is the threshold...

Can someone just clarify that throttles are definitely out on any legal kit fitted to a bike please?

Can someone just clarify that throttles are definitely out on any legal kit fitted to a bike please?

Not an answer to your question, but wasn't there some kind of distinction made between an 'off the shelf' bike and kits or aftermarket modifications?

Fordulike is correct that in his case voltage doesn't come in to the legal issue as he is talking of and only mentions only 48v. If he was talking or planning higher voltage then yes it becomes an issue. The 48v is a nominal value so 13s is the highest you can go at 46.8v, which KTM used with their Panasonic 47v hub system.

I was just reacting to [mention=2972]Fordulike[/mention] saying: "I know that the voltage doesn't come into the legality issue", it does unfortunately because I really like the idea of a 52 V battery like those made by Lunacycle...

 

AK you are reacting to situation that suits your future requirements and different to Fordulike's current needs, which are a for legal set up. His above statement you are quoting needs to be read carefully and put in to context, in OP # 1 he outlines his requirements for a legal 48v kit and in #3 the text relates to his OP #1.

 

Also Danidl has taken the same stance as you and is taking the quote out of context, lets stick to the facts /requirements being asked for and not jump on the illegal set up

Can someone just clarify that throttles are definitely out on any legal kit fitted to a bike please?

 

New bike as of Jan 2016 are allowed but only as 6km walk assist unless type approval has been sought, bikes supplied before this have GF rights. Conversions I believe aren't affected if componenets are built/made/ before this date and can be retrofitted after Jan16.

Flecc will is the man to ask for clarification.

Can someone just clarify that throttles are definitely out on any legal kit fitted to a bike please?

 

Yes. Throttles are allowed on kits.

 

Only factory built bikes are subject to the new '2016 throttle law' that requires the throttle to be turned off until the customers start pedaling.

Not an answer to your question, but wasn't there some kind of distinction made between an 'off the shelf' bike and kits or aftermarket modifications?

... It was the statement that voltage was irrelevant, that I was responding to. I don't think it is well understood that the EPAC designation is only available up to the 48v value. I believe that this value has its roots in a very old telecommunications standard, and the safety value was just transferred accross in more recent legislation.

So, assuming that the motor is marked as 250w, as stated in EAPC rules below, can anyone see any reason why this kit won't be suitable for my needs?

I have sent a message to the vendor to ask what markings are on the motor.

 

Electric Bicycle E Bike Motor Conversion Kit 26" Rear Wheel

 

EAPC requirements are:

• the bike must have pedals that can be used to propel it
  
• the electric motor shouldn’t be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph
  
• the motor shouldn’t have a maximum power output of more than 250 watts
  

It must also display one item from each of the following:

• the power output or manufacturer of the motor
  
• the battery’s voltage or maximum speed of the bike
  

And a technical question about the kit in post #19. I can't see any speed sensor, so how does the controller know what speed the wheel is going, to cut off the power at the legal speed?

I can't see any speed sensor,

 

Hub motors can have internal speed sensor.

So, assuming that the motor is marked as 250w, as stated in EAPC rules below, can anyone see any reason why this kit won't be suitable for my needs?

I have sent a message to the vendor to ask what markings are on the motor.

 

Electric Bicycle E Bike Motor Conversion Kit 26" Rear Wheel

 

It's not legal, another one of them cheap 1KW Chinese D/D kits. The power drive of motors/kits aren't allowed to be switchable this one uses a switching cable embedded in the controller although it is 250w legal in one sense it can be changed to 1KW, It has a double mode so is sheep in wolf's clothing.

The motor is wound for 28mph and fast riding so is probably about 400rpm or more, at 250w and 16mph it will be so inefficient and power will be transferred in to heat.

Edited May 18, 20178 yr by Nealh

Internal speed sensor hubs have the 9 wire motor cables with the white one used for this.

Any 36V kit geared hub with a 36/48 V controller and a 48 V battery would be legal as long as the motor is engraved "250 W".

And a technical question about the kit in post #19. I can't see any speed sensor, so how does the controller know what speed the wheel is going, to cut off the power at the legal speed?

.... It doesn't need one. The controller has a clock and electronic switches which switches the DC current into the three sets of coils in the motor in a specific sequence and rate. It doesn't need to know from the motor what speed it is going at, because it is doing the driving. The speed of the clock in the controller sets the rotation speed.