UK driving licence categories and Electric bikes.

[Tortus]

Can anyone make sense of these UK laws and tell me what they think.
If you passed your car driving test before 2001.

If you have a car driving licence
You can ride a moped (up to 50cc) without L plates and without taking the moped test in some situations.
You passed your driving test on or after 1 February 2001
You’ll get a full moped licence if you either:

• pass your car driving test and then complete a compulsory basic training (CBT) course
• complete a CBT course and then pass your car driving test within two years

You can then ride a moped (up to 50cc) without L plates. You do not need to take the full moped test.
You can ride mopeds for as long as your car driving licence lasts.
You passed your driving test before 1 February 2001
You can ride a moped (up to 50cc) without L plates. You do not need to take a CBT course or take the full moped test.
You must take CBT if you want to ride anything larger than a 50cc moped.

And also the driving licence categories.


Mopeds
Category AM
You can drive 2-wheeled or 3-wheeled vehicles with a maximum design speed of over 25km/h (15.5mph) but not more than 45km/h (28mph).
This category also includes light quad bikes with:

• mass in running order of not more than 425kg (not including batteries if it’s an electric vehicle)
• maximum design speed of over 25km/h (15.5mph) but not more than 45km/h (28mph)

Category P
You can drive 2-wheeled vehicles with a maximum design speed of over 45km/h (28mph) but not more than 50km/h (31mph).
Its engine size must not be more than 50cc if powered by an internal combustion engine.
Category Q
You can drive 2-wheeled and 3-wheeled vehicles without pedals with:

• an engine size not more than 50cc if powered by an internal combustion engine
• a maximum design speed of no more than 25km/h (15.5mph)

This category also includes trial e-scooters.

Does this mean anyone with these categories on their driving licence can drive an Ebike legally?
Thanks

 

[soundwave]

i just ride my bike pissed and stoned out of my head going 40mph mostly on the pavement never been a problem till i hit a phone zombie but now my right leg is titanium + new hip as well

 

[flecc]

Does this mean anyone with these categories on their driving licence can drive an Ebike legally?
Thanks

Yes.

If you have category P on your licence you can ride a 50cc moped at up to 30mph. (This is an early British category)

If you just have category AM on your licence you can ride a 50cc moped or S-Class high speed pedelec at up to 28mph. (The is the EU 45 kph category)

If you just have category Q on your licence you can ride an e-bike or e-scooter at up to 15.5mph. (This is the EU's L1e-A and British low powered moped category)
.

 

[Tortus]

I'm old enough (passed car test in 1977) and have all of them on my licence.
Question is how would I stand in a court of law riding a 1000w electric bike with a throttle?
Cheers

 

[soundwave]

plod wont catch that

 

[portals]

Question is how would I stand in a court of law riding a 1000w electric bike with a throttle?
Cheers

Guilty...

Why do you think otherwise? Unless you have got a DSA type, taxed it and got insurance which you won't get in UK it's illegal?

 

[flecc]

I'm old enough (passed car test in 1977) and have all of them on my licence.
Question is how would I stand in a court of law riding a 1000w electric bike with a throttle?
Cheers

No problem if it was registered and insured, since there are various up to around 4kW e-mopeds that qualify for the P and AM categories.

But if not registered and number plated you'd be riding an illegal moped. The 1000 watts isn't a problem, since the Q licence category L1e-A class allows up to 1000 watts and a throttle, but they still have to be registered, number plated, and insured and ridden with an approved helmet.

Therein lies the snag, it's very difficult and complicated to get registered and insured for such vehicles. It is possible, some have even done it with e-scooters, but they've had to jump though all sorts of hoops.
.

 

[soundwave]

you can park it anywhere and let it take a 50kg dump in the middle of the road

 

[Tortus]

Guilty...

Why do you think otherwise? Unless you have got a DSA type, taxed it and got insurance which you won't get in UK it's illegal?

Its impossible to do I believe

 

[Tortus]

Guilty...

Why do you think otherwise? Unless you have got a DSA type, taxed it and got insurance which you won't get in UK it's illegal?

What is DSA?

 

[Tortus]

No problem if it was registered and insured, since there are various up to around 4kW e-mopeds that qualify for the P and AM categories.

But if not registered and number plated you'd be riding an illegal moped. The 1000 watts isn't a problem, since the Q licence category L1e-A class allows up to 1000 watts and a throttle, but they still have to be registered, number plated, and insured and ridden with an approved helmet.

Therein lies the snag, it's very difficult and complicated to get registered and insured for such vehicles. It is possible, some have even done it with e-scooters, but they've had to jump though all sorts of hoops.
.

So its a no win situation, Just apply throttle and get out of there.

 

[portals]

View attachment 60497

you can park it anywhere and let it take a 50kg dump in the middle of the road

Can you get one on PIP?

 

[saneagle]

So its a no win situation, Just apply throttle and get out of there.

As far as we know, nobody is providing insurance for a 1000w ebike. If you find someone, please let us know.

 

[flecc]

What is DSA?

He means a DVLA approved listed vehicle.
.

 

[flecc]

So its a no win situation, Just apply throttle and get out of there.

Afraid so. The trouble with that 1000 watt low powered moped class is that nobody finds it attractive enough with compulsory registration and driving licence etc. So everyone either sticks to legal or illegal pedelecs or gets licenced to a full 30mph moped.

We really need the category AM 28mph mopeds treated the same as the S Class high speed pedelecs in three EU countries, no driving licence necessary and simple registration and insurance, but our DVLA is scared of any easing of motor vehicle rules. Once bitten, twice shy, they still remember the mistake they made in giving a moped licence to all car drivers.
.

 

[Tortus]

Afraid so. The trouble with that 1000 watt low powered moped class is that nobody finds it attractive enough with compulsory registration and driving licence etc. So everyone either sticks to legal or illegal pedelecs or gets licenced to a full 30mph moped.

We really need the category AM 28mph mopeds treated the same as the S Class high speed pedelecs in three EU countries, no driving licence necessary and simple registration and insurance, but our DVLA is scared of any easing of motor vehicle rules. Once bitten, twice shy, they still remember the mistake they made in giving a moped licence to all car drivers.
.

I have the moped entitlement on my licence. So you would think if I can ride a 50cc moped without a test I'm capable of riding an electric bike. Its the insurance etc, nobody wants to get involved.
I just hope the new rules come into play soon as I am quite happy pottering around at 15MPH and having a 500w motor, as long as it has a throttle as well. I like to look at the scenery not fly around like an idiot.
No one knows what the new rules will involve like bike a check of some sorts, insurance will be a definite law.
Hopefully no tests though, I'm too old for stuff like that.
Cheers

 

[flecc]

I have the moped entitlement on my licence. So you would think if I can ride a 50cc moped without a test I'm capable of riding an electric bike. Its the insurance etc, nobody wants to get involved.
I just hope the new rules come into play soon as I am quite happy pottering around at 15MPH and having a 500w motor, as long as it has a throttle as well. I like to look at the scenery not fly around like an idiot.
No one knows what the new rules will involve like bike a check of some sorts, insurance will be a definite law.
Hopefully no tests though, I'm too old for stuff like that.
Cheers

It's not that no-one wants to get involved with providing insurance, the insurance companies would love extra business. It's just that there are no customers for it. Name me one 1000 watt L1e-A machine available to buy. There aren't any due to lack of any demand for them, due to too much hassle for too little benefit.

I'm not certain there will be any new 500 watt law for pedelecs. the government may yet get cold feet and back out and may even end the e-scooter trial without ever legalising them. Their hope had been that they would become serious commuting machines getting drivers out of cars, but in truth that hasn't happened, they've mostly just become kids toys.
.

 

[Tortus]

It's not that no-one wants to get involved with providing insurance, the insurance companies would love extra business. It's just that there are no customers for it. Name me one 1000 watt L1e-A machine available to buy. There aren't any due to lack of any demand for them, due to too much hassle for too little benefit.

I'm not certain there will be any new 500 watt law for pedelecs. the government may yet get cold feet and back out and may even end the e-scooter trial without ever legalising them. Their hope had been that they would become serious commuting machines getting drivers out of cars, but in truth that hasn't happened, they've mostly just become kids toys.
.

Knowing this government they are capable of anything!!

 

[Tortus]

Knowing this government they are capable of anything!!

It's not that no-one wants to get involved with providing insurance, the insurance companies would love extra business. It's just that there are no customers for it. Name me one 1000 watt L1e-A machine available to buy. There aren't any due to lack of any demand for them, due to too much hassle for too little benefit.

I'm not certain there will be any new 500 watt law for pedelecs. the government may yet get cold feet and back out and may even end the e-scooter trial without ever legalising them. Their hope had been that they would become serious commuting machines getting drivers out of cars, but in truth that hasn't happened, they've mostly just become kids toys.
.

Just out of interest, If I bought a Surron could I ride that on my moped licence with tax and insurance etc.

 

[Ghost1951]

Just out of interest, If I bought a Surron could I ride that on my moped licence with tax and insurance etc.

Only if it was registered and taxed and insured and you wear a helmet.

It would also need to comply with the construction and use regulations applying to mopeds - maybe it is called type approval these days.

I see them every weekend riding about the streets of the town where my grandchildren live. They are usually being ridden in a ridiculously disreputable way. If I were you and you want to go faster than a pedelec is allowed to go, I'd just buy a petrol moped or a small petrol motorbike like a 125. The test and training process is easy and much simpler than struggling to try and get a Surron legally on the road. What is more, I think you would probably have a much better small motorcycle or moped. FAR better. More reliable, Less likely to burn your house down and longer lasting.

I don't understand the enthusiasm for going electric in higher power e-bikes. The legal challenge is significant and so are the penalties of having lots of points on your driving license. See what that does to your car insurance...