Type Approval

[hoppy]

Has anyone got a clear idea of the details of type approval requirements for twist and go EAPCs, and thus how they differ from those for L1eA powered cycles up to 1000 watts which require registration etc?

 

[trex]

there is ambiguity in this paragraph:

8.Because of the particular benefits for eldely and disabled users, pedal cycles providing electrical assistance without initial use of the pedals
usually called "twist and goes" would continue to be covered by these regulations. For use on roads in GB, such cycles must
however ...

it seems to indicate that the presence or addition of the throttle is not the problem, the wording ' without initial use of the pedals' implies that if the bike has to be started initially by pedaling, and you can subsequently use the throttle to control the amount of assistance, that bike is not seen as twist and go, therefore does not require separate type approval.

 

[flecc]

It appears from the EU regulation due for adoption here in January 2016 that registration will not be a requirement. The following copied and pasted from the EU final white paper on type approval requirements for L1e-A and L1e-B:

VCR – Annex XIV

Registration plate space

L1e-A

Excluded

Only L1e-B has space for a registration plate required in the type approval regulation. Current indications are that sound bicycle components are all that is necessary for L1e-A type approval, since even the braking requirements are relaxed for machines weighing less than 35 kilos and with rims below 45 mm width.
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[hoppy]

It appears from the EU regulation due for adoption here in January 2016 that registration will not be a requirement. The following copied and pasted from the EU final white paper on type approval requirements for L1e-A and L1e-B:

VCR – Annex XIV

Registration plate space

L1e-A

Excluded

Only L1e-B has space for a registration plate required in the type approval regulation. Current indications are that sound bicycle components are all that is necessary for LIe-A type approval, since even the braking requirements are relaxed for machines weighing less than 35 kilos and with rims below 45 mm width.
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Thanks, flecc, that sounds like very good news!

 

[HelenJ]

I had a short reply from DfT late Friday; I'd asked if twist and gos would definitely be classed as L1e-A as I felt their previous response saying "168/2013.. enters into force on 1 January 2016 and mandates type approval for the new categories of powered cycles which includes ‘Twist and Go’ EAPCs" was confusing.

Their response on Friday was:
"As mentioned in my previous letter the new EU category for 2 wheeled vehicles is set out in EU regulation 168/2013. Please see Annex 1. It is our understanding that twist and go cycles are classed as L1eA, provided of course they meet all the relevant criteria from that category set out in the Annex."

Their previous response clarified:
"Although ‘Twist and Go’ cycles will require Type Approval according to the dates in EU 168/2013 the decision has been taken that cycles that have ‘Twist and Go’ capabilities up to 15.5 mph will not be considered as motor vehicles and therefore will not require registration, tax, insurance and rider licensing."

My write-up of that is here http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/twist-gos-require-type-approval-helmets-insurance-tax/

 

[hoppy]

I had a short reply from DfT late Friday; I'd asked if twist and gos would definitely be classed as L1e-A as I felt their previous response saying "168/2013.. enters into force on 1 January 2016 and mandates type approval for the new categories of powered cycles which includes ‘Twist and Go’ EAPCs" was confusing.

Their response on Friday was:
"As mentioned in my previous letter the new EU category for 2 wheeled vehicles is set out in EU regulation 168/2013. Please see Annex 1. It is our understanding that twist and go cycles are classed as L1eA, provided of course they meet all the relevant criteria from that category set out in the Annex."

Their previous response clarified:
"Although ‘Twist and Go’ cycles will require Type Approval according to the dates in EU 168/2013 the decision has been taken that cycles that have ‘Twist and Go’ capabilities up to 15.5 mph will not be considered as motor vehicles and therefore will not require registration, tax, insurance and rider licensing."

My write-up of that is here http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/twist-gos-require-type-approval-helmets-insurance-tax/

Thanks,Helen. From what you and flecc say, it seems that from 1.1.16 all L1eA bikes will be exempt from registration, and therefore surely from licences, tax, insurance, helmets and MOTs, because all these are linked to a registered motor vehicle.This must mean that all L1eA bikes with 1000 watt electric or petrol motors, but restricted to 25 kph, can be ridden as bicycles.

 

[flecc]

Yes, that seems to be the case if there is no requirement for a number plate space. The only difference from being a bicycle being that requirement for type approval.

Although member governments can add further restrictions under some circumstances, such as usage, it's difficult to see how the UK could require registration etc over the 250 watt level for L1e-A if the type approval law that binds us doesn't provide for a number plate space.
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[hoppy]

Yes, that seems to be the case if there is no requirement for a number plate space. The only difference from being a bicycle being that requirement for type approval.

Although member governments can add further restrictions under some circumstances, such as usage, it's difficult to see how the UK could require registration etc over the 250 watt level for L1e-A if the type approval law that binds us doesn't provide for a number plate space.
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I look forward to these 1000 watt bikes. They could suit the man or woman in the street well with excellent hill climbing at a good speed. Could sell well at a reasonable price.

 

[flecc]

I look forward to these 1000 watt bikes. They could suit the man or woman in the street well with excellent hill climbing at a good speed. Could sell well at a reasonable price.

Trouble is that it all sounds too good to be true Hoppy, I'd never bet against a UK government contriving to put a spoke in the wheel in some way.

If they do we'll be back to square one with no-one making these 1000watt bikes.
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[JohnCade]

I may be missing something here but since they would be restricted to the same speed as the 250w ones what is the point of them? We all know 250w is a nominal figure anyway with almost all bikes having a lot more grunt than that in practise, while some bikes with powerful motors will go uphill at a very good speed without even having to pedal now.

 

[danielrlee]

I may be missing something here but since they would be restricted to the same speed as the 250w ones what is the point of them? We all know 250w is a nominal figure anyway with almost all bikes having a lot more grunt than that in practise, while some bikes with powerful motors will go uphill at a very good speed without even having to pedal now.

Now there is a legal option of a sturdy 1000W DD hub motor for those of us who value reliability over all else.

 

[flecc]

Hill climbing with very heavy riders and/or riders with very limited ability. Also for standing starts on hills with throttle-only for those who cannot pedal off the mark in that circumstance, like our three one legged members.

Two others things to note, the 1000watts is also a rating, so still potentially four times more powerful than the 250 watt rated ones. Also the hill climbing on even the most able 250 watt machines doesn't necessarily result in a very good speed without pedalling if the hill is at all steep and/or the rider is very heavy.

My 250 watt rated bike peaks at 1000 watts and is considered one of the best climbers around on motor only. With my under 70 kilos it will only climb 12% very slowly without pedalling, and no e-bike I know will climb 20% without pedalling, even with a light rider.
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[hoppy]

I may be missing something here but since they would be restricted to the same speed as the 250w ones what is the point of them? We all know 250w is a nominal figure anyway with almost all bikes having a lot more grunt than that in practise, while some bikes with powerful motors will go uphill at a very good speed without even having to pedal now.

The 1000 watt figure would surely be measured the same way as the 250 watt figure, so the motors should have four times as much power. No current 250 watt bike will take 100 kg up 25% without pedalling, or at more than 3 or 4 mph at best. A 1000 watt motor should do much better. The Mr or Mrs Average who used to buy Powabykes by the thousand would like this much better. 25 kph is OK but you want to be able to maintain it up
hill. 1000 watt bikes would be much better at this.

 

[D8ve]

The 1000 watt figure would surely be measured the same way as the 250 watt figure, so the motors should have four times as much power. No current 250 watt bike will take 100 kg up 25% without pedalling, or at more than 3 or 4 mph at best. A 1000 watt motor should do much better. The Mr or Mrs Average who used to buy Powabykes by the thousand would like this much better. 25 kph is OK but you want to be able to maintain it up
hill. 1000 watt bikes would be much better at this.

The test is can the motor deliver 250 watts without burning out?.
Any of the 250 watt motors that can produce 1000 watts now could just be reclassified with no real increase in power.
(Simplistic reply there is more detail if you need it)

 

[flecc]

The test is can the motor deliver 250 watts without burning out?.
Any of the 250 watt motors that can produce 1000 watts now could just be reclassified with no real increase in power.
(Simplistic reply there is more detail if you need it)

But I think the point Hoppy and I are making is that a 1000 watt motor nominally rated the same way would peak with 4000 watts, and that is what would happen for the L1e-A low powered moped class. It would give them the same power as many of the electric mopeds.
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