Two wheel drive electric bike

[flecc]

Not in EN 15194, it is ONE motor.

Fortunately only 2 of the 28 EU countries have signed up to EN15194.

The rest can depend on the EU type approval of two and three wheeled vehicles in 168/2013 which doesn't specify the number of motors, only the 250 watt limit.
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[SouthdownsMike]

I'm 70 years old with a dodgy hip, so my Oxvgen MTS is my only way of getting up into the hills I love.
I recently renewed the battery ( nice cheap Dorado battery from China) with a 17.5 amp/hr unit.
Just as an experiment, I fitted another 250W motor to the front wheel. Simple second controller with thumb throttle (no LCD display, just an on/off switch) all run from the same battery.
It is magic. Whenever I'm up against a particularly steep bit of track. or on gravel or loose grit, just a quick squirt of power and away I go.
I know it's probably illegal, but at my age, it's worth taking the chance just for the freedom it gives me.
Without this modification I'd be stuck at the bottom of Firle beacon, or Bopeep Hill, wondering if I'll ever get up there again.

 

[richtea99]

Two motors will give:
- more evenly distributed weight
- evenly distributed grip (both tyres are driving)
- a failsafe: if one motor fails the other can keep driving

However, against that the downside will be higher overall weight.

 

[Sturmey]

I have a similar setup with a yosepower 350w with pedal assist sensor on rear and a mxus 250w with throttle only on front. It has worked great for the last 3 years and over 20,000km, and has got me comfortably up steep hills that would not of been possible otherwise. The only technical problem has been the odd broken spoke on rear and a noisy wheel bearing on front replaced, and the wearing out of the rims coming back down those hills with v brakes. I will have to change that bike to disk brakes sometime.
Anyhow, I can say that two motors definitely give you double the power in terms of torque and climbing ability. Also, I think it improves reliability in that the motors are less likely to be overloaded and overheated. In fact, the extra motor weight can be an advantage in terms of absorbing heat and two motors can disperse heat better than one larger one.(more surface area)
Of course, some time in the future, I would like to replace these two motors with one larger geared hub (for legal purposes). I reckon I would need something like a high torque 1000w geared hub (e.g. Mac12T) to better my setup.
I have also a little 250w tsdz2 mid drive with throttle and low 34/34 gearing. It will pull me up hills but slowly. Its great for the nearby slow and narrow mtb tracks. However, I find all that gear changing tiring. Also my old legs like a slow and relaxed cadence (50-60rpm) that hub motors are ideal for whereas some of these middrives like lively legs that can spin at 80 rpm.

 

[guerney]

I have a similar setup with a yosepower 350w with pedal assist sensor on rear and a mxus 250w with throttle only on front. It has worked great for the last 3 years and over 20,000km, and has got me comfortably up steep hills that would not of been possible otherwise. The only technical problem has been the odd broken spoke on rear and a noisy wheel bearing on front replaced, and the wearing out of the rims coming back down those hills with v brakes. I will have to change that bike to disk brakes sometime.
Anyhow, I can say that two motors definitely give you double the power in terms of torque and climbing ability. Also, I think it improves reliability in that the motors are less likely to be overloaded and overheated. In fact, the extra motor weight can be an advantage in terms of absorbing heat and two motors can disperse heat better than one larger one.(more surface area)
Of course, some time in the future, I would like to replace these two motors with one larger geared hub (for legal purposes). I reckon I would need something like a high torque 1000w geared hub (e.g. Mac12T) to better my setup.
I have also a little 250w tsdz2 mid drive with throttle and low 34/34 gearing. It will pull me up hills but slowly. Its great for the nearby slow and narrow mtb tracks. However, I find all that gear changing tiring. Also my old legs like a slow and relaxed cadence (50-60rpm) that hub motors are ideal for whereas some of these middrives like lively legs that can spin at 80 rpm.

I don't know anything about this online shop, but what do you think about this mid-drive? Apparently, limited by programming?

X1 Pro: High-torque eBike kit – LEFTFIELDBIKES

We offer electric cargo bikes, road and mountain bikes, motocross, urban, commuter, custom conversions & equally glorious options with a twist. These include bicycles for both transport & recreation: fun, function & everything in between. Our unique ’One-click Cycle to Work Scheme’ provides...

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I've never heard of this mid-drive, but it claims to have 180nm torque.

Here's a very long ride and chat video of it in action:

 

[guerney]

250nm torque:

X1 PRO Gen 2 5000W Ebike Conversion Kit | CYCMOTOR LTD

The X1 PRO Gen 2 is the most powerful ebike conversion kit rated with over 5000W of power & 250 N.m. of torque. This is a complete ebike or emtb mid drive conversion system made by CYCMOTOR LTD. Transform you mtb or road bike into an electric bicycle with ultimate performance.

www.cycmotor.com

X1 Pro Gen 2 mid drive conversion kit | CYCMotor Ltd

The X1 Pro Gen 2 is the ultimate high powered ebike conversion kit. Complete with torque sensing, mobile app, 5000W and 150N.m. This mid drive motor has the power to excite any ebike or emtb enthusiast.

www.cycmotor.com

 

[Nealh]

Spot the similarities in design, the CycMotor X1 pro top and the GNG below.
Both companies are owned by the same owners but both producing differing power options.

Both use a remote air cooled box controller covered by the shroud sides between BB and the drive motor.

 

[guerney]

Spot the similarities in design, the CycMotor X1 pro top and the GNG below.
Both companies are owned by the same owners but both producing differing power options.

Both use a remote air cooled box controller covered by the shroud sides between BB and the drive motor.


View attachment 44499

View attachment 44500

Are these GNGs any good? They look easy to fit:

Here's the other one taken completely apart and compared to the Bafang HD:

 

[Nealh]

Never used one but reliability wise they should be better then BBS et al, as one can see the controller isn't wholly integrated but runs with some free air and lots more metal for heatsink.
They are bulkier so if you don't like ugly BB motors like this look or Bosh et al then might not be your thing. The good thing is they fit most any std English threaded BB's.

 

[guerney]

Never used one but reliability wise they should be better then BBS et al, as one can see the controller isn't wholly integrated but runs with some free air and lots more metal for heatsink.
They are bulkier so if you don't like ugly BB motors like this look or Bosh et al then might not be your thing. The good thing is they fit most any std English threaded BB's.

If they're as or more reliable than the Bafangs, I might well give the X1-Pro a go... when I stop caring about legality. The looks of the Bosch aren't the issue for me, it's their lack of (relatively) cheap repairability at home.

 

[guerney]

The only reason my Bafang BBS01b is dead after about 1300 miles, is because I killed it by accident - this X1-Pro has done about the same mileage, looks in worse shape... but at least it's fixable at home:

 

[Nealh]

Hope you got deep pockets for a battery, the X1 Pro nominal current is 70a for the 855 controller and 200a for the 2000 model. One would think for serious riding a 100ah battery would be needed for any decent range.

My Swizzbee runs typically at up to 16a -30a nominal with a brushed motor and eats battery mah.

 

[guerney]

Hope you got deep pockets for a battery, the X1 Pro nominal current is 70a for the 855 controller and 200a for the 2000 model. One would think for serious riding a 100ah battery would be needed for any decent range.

My Swizzbee runs typically at up to 16a -30a nominal with a brushed motor and eats battery mah.

$350 each (plus everything), and I'd need at least two. Main thing is - it isn't Bosch!

X-Series Batteries for Ebikes | CYCMOTOR LTD

The X-Series Batteries are the ultimate solution for your ebike or emtb conversion system. Made by CYCMOTOR LTD, the ebike battery line is complete with 36V & 52V options making is the last part to a complete electric bike conversion kit.

www.cycmotor.com

 

[guerney]

My Swizzbee runs typically at up to 16a -30a nominal with a brushed motor and eats battery mah.

Your Swizzbee is brilliant! Legal too.

 

[SouthdownsMike]

Your Swizzbee is brilliant! Legal too.

So I'm new to this site but is it normal to go so far off the forum topic so soon ? or am just being a bit of an old fart.

 

[Nealh]

Threads do drift sometimes one just goes with the ebb and flow.

 

[Nealh]

The only reason my Bafang BBS01b is dead after about 1300 miles, is because I killed it by accident - this X1-Pro has done about the same mileage, looks in worse shape... but at least it's fixable at home:

Both my BBS01 controllers died around the same sort of mileage, I find them quite poor.

 

[Nealh]

Your Swizzbee is brilliant! Legal too.

I wish it was, but love the iconic style and look of the bike. It is unique.
The mid drive brushed Heinzeman motor is 270w and the controller doesn't speed limit. No display is used as the bike has no PAS levels, it rides as fast as the rider wants it too.

 

[Nealh]

To bring the thread back on line a bit go the full hog F & R hub with a GNG in the middle.

 

[guerney]

To bring the thread back on line a bit go the full hog F & R hub with a GNG in the middle.

That combination might get most of the way up a dam!