Two boys die in "ebike" accident: Cardiff riot broke out after 'police prevented parents seeing fatal crash victims', close relative says

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Being hounded by the cops that 'weren't following them' that led to their deaths who were only a street away chasing at point of impact?
More utter nonsense.

The rider knew he had lost the police tail even before he reached the barrier, when the van turned off the barriered street.

As said, he was no longer under any pressure of any sort when he went though the barrier and into another street with no police following or in sight.

To say the rider would be "sh1t1ng himself" after losing the tail is even greater nonsense, especially since we know how hardened he was in regard to the police, given his extensive history with them.

I'm not against the principle of some of the things you are saying, indeed I go much further and think police road chases should not be allowed at all under most circumstances, since there are more intelligent and much safer ways of handling such situations.

But how policing is carried out is not under the control of the police, it's dictated by the Home Office who are in charge of policing policy. So it's only through the politicians that such changes can be effected. Given the way the public are forever demanding more enforcement and harder sentencing, there's little chance of such a change.

You call the police bullies, but in effect that is what they are taught to be as a matter of policy. At Hendon here in London we have by far the largest police training school in the country, regularly having military style passing out parades on completion of training, emphasising their para-military nature since the the changes wrought by Thatcher in the 1980s.

A major part of that training is that the police have to take command of any situation, enforcing that command and control as necessary, which of course includes physical force. That is the bullying of which you speak, restraint which has killed a number of people being arrested or when in custody.

As said above, these matters can only be changed through political action, the police are powerless to change them.

There have been attempts at change, "fast tracking" being a notable example in London. Under this Home Office policy, university graduates were being recruited to the police with the promise of fast promotion, the aim being to considerably improve the intellectual ability of police officers.

It's had limited success though and one notorious failure. It all amounts to something obvious, policing is not just difficult, it's impossible to do to everyone's satisfaction.
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AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
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The rider knew he had lost the police tail even before he reached the barrier, when the van turned off the barriered street.
Actually chap, i dont think you can say that. You arent privy to what the kids knew or didn't know, other than the fact that they were at that point being closely followed by the police.

It is clear though that the police turning the corner was an attempt to 'head them off at the pass' so to speak.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Actually chap, i dont think you can say that. You arent privy to what the kids knew or didn't know, other than the fact that they were at that point being closely followed by the police.
They had been, they were no longer.
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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I got this injury 5 weeks ago when I fell off my ebike stationary outside my flat. It had just got dark and was coming back from shop with cpl bottles wine in backpack along with the locks making it quite heavy.

I was closer to edge of pavement than I though in the light, stepped off the bike and my foot missed the pavement, by time foot hit the road it felt like there was someone behind me grabbing on the backpack pulling me to the ground.

Nope, just gravity, a heavy backpack and a 30kg ebike falling on you. I was lucky no real damage done although I still feel it.

So yes, wear a helmet!

View attachment 51779
Also a painful loss of presumably good (or bearable) plonk. It's safer to use bike trailers, rather than heavy rucksacks. There are much nicer and smaller folding trailers than my cheapo steel framed Homcom. And there's more room for wine, obvs.


51821
 
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lenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 3, 2023
2,552
754
I would say the facts are the rational explanation and there is approaching £100k of public sector debt for every single working person in this country and many local councils are spending more on debt interest than services. The point is if you are commiting a crime which could kill innocent people you should be stopped even if that means the criminals risk injuries when being stopped or trying to get away. Ultimately if there is going to be a victim far better that victim is a criminal than an innocent person. There is little support for protecting criminals from injuries in the general population in a pursuit situation. You have to increase the deterient to a point where crime is far less and not protect criminals and give them rights the same as their victims.
Cops should be given tanks to flatten bollards and children with. It's a small price to pay for law and order.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Intimidate to force error. Police strategy worked and no doubt will be ruled clear.
Police no longer present at the time so there was no intimidation causing the accident. Indeed there was no intimidation at any point. If the police had wanted to intimidate when following earlier they'd have used blues and twos.

They did not.
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AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
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Also a painful loss of presumably good (or bearable) plonk. It's safer to use bike trailers, rather than heavy rucksacks. There are much nicer and smaller folding trailers than my cheapo steel framed Homcom. And there's more room for wine, obvs.


View attachment 51821
Look at the state of that trailer :eek: clearly overloaded and not tied down properly.It's not even properly lit.

Something could fall off and injure a child.

Someone call the cops...
 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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Look at the state of that trailer :eek: clearly overloaded and not tied down properly.It's not even properly lit.

Something could fall off and injure a child.

Someone call the cops...
I wear my illegality as a badge of honour, as many communities do, including the cops. Alas you are incorrect @AndyBike, she'll never escape those handcuffs ;), four straps are not visible because it's a loose (but strong, tied at the top) rubble sack, the trailer has reflectors and that sash on the passing side is a long and bright flashing red LED, plus it's clearly reflective. Besides, I've added this 1800LM rear light since that photo - I am considering adding another of the same on the right hand side back end of the trailer, also soldered to my bike's battery like the others.

51825
51826


Plus metres of red, orange and yellow refective tape on the trailer itself, on all sides.
 
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lenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 3, 2023
2,552
754
Police no longer present at the time so there was no intimidation causing the accident. Indeed there was no intimidation at any point. If the police had wanted to intimidate when following earlier they'd have used blues and twos.

They did not.
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Risk is assessed more rationally when prefrontal lobes fully develop aged 25. Children fear irrationally.
 
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portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
604
176
I find it more than a little disturbing that this thread is no longer focusing on the fact that two kids died, rather it's turned in to a daily mail sh1tsh1w

You destroy the family for living in the wrong side of town, in poverty, having run ins with the cops, kids being 'known' etc., the validity of which we'll never know, and you justify that - for what possible reason? 'Ya, he was riding an illegal bike, it's ok if they die...'
 

portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
604
176
Did they say how many times boys were guilty of what they were accused of? This is how it works unfortunately, you build yourself a reputation and criminal record and you are a prime suspect when something goes wrong.
So what, that gives cops justification to pursue and kill them?


I want police to actively fight crime and antisocial behaviour. I want them to chase criminals with or without helmets on. Citizen has a duty to stop when ordered by police. People shouldn't be afraid to cycle through a neighbourhood.
Stop reading comics, speak to the real Batman and get a fcukin life.


It hurts to see how badly mopeds are being managed in this country. When you buy a TV they immediately send you a letter asking to pay a TV license and if you don't and caught watching TV you get a criminal record. How is it possible to buy a moped without registration plates and insurance is beyond my understanding.
We're the Sweeney and we haven't had our dinner
 
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portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
604
176
More utter nonsense.

The rider knew he had lost the police tail even before he reached the barrier, when the van turned off the barriered street.

As said, he was no longer under any pressure of any sort when he went though the barrier and into another street with no police following or in sight.

To say the rider would be "sh1t1ng himself" after losing the tail is even greater nonsense, especially since we know how hardened he was in regard to the police, given his extensive history with them.

I'm not against the principle of some of the things you are saying, indeed I go much further and think police road chases should not be allowed at all under most circumstances, since there are more intelligent and much safer ways of handling such situations.

But how policing is carried out is not under the control of the police, it's dictated by the Home Office who are in charge of policing policy. So it's only through the politicians that such changes can be effected. Given the way the public are forever demanding more enforcement and harder sentencing, there's little chance of such a change.

You call the police bullies, but in effect that is what they are taught to be as a matter of policy. At Hendon here in London we have by far the largest police training school in the country, regularly having military style passing out parades on completion of training, emphasising their para-military nature since the the changes wrought by Thatcher in the 1980s.

A major part of that training is that the police have to take command of any situation, enforcing that command and control as necessary, which of course includes physical force. That is the bullying of which you speak, restraint which has killed a number of people being arrested or when in custody.

As said above, these matters can only be changed through political action, the police are powerless to change them.

There have been attempts at change, "fast tracking" being a notable example in London. Under this Home Office policy, university graduates were being recruited to the police with the promise of fast promotion, the aim being to considerably improve the intellectual ability of police officers.

It's had limited success though and one notorious failure. It all amounts to something obvious, policing is not just difficult, it's impossible to do to everyone's satisfaction.
.
I let most this go as we're all entitled to our own opinions etc.

However have to draw a line.

1. But how policing is carried out is not under the control of the police, it's dictated by the Home Office who are in charge of policing policy. So it's only through the politicians that such changes can be effected. Given the way the public are forever demanding more enforcement and harder sentencing, there's little chance of such a change.

Politicians might like to think they dictate policy, truth is that Station's policy is dictated to by the least bent sergeant who happens to be working at the time.....sad but true

2. You call the police bullies, but in effect that is what they are taught to be as a matter of policy.
??
In my best Eddie Murphy voice ' get the **** out of here....///'

3. A major part of that training is that the police have to take command of any situation, enforcing that command and control as necessary, which of course includes physical force. That is the bullying of which you speak, restraint which has killed a number of people being arrested or when in custody.


To take command of a situation you first need some authority (or you will be ignored), then you need to be able to articulate your pov which unfortunately is where the cops fall down, apart from being shouty and threatening they're not know for the comms, conversation or debating skills. Else they wouldn't be cops....and have a real job....
 
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portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
604
176
On a lighter note, I plan on hotwiring one of these pussy scooters with my portable 72V battery in the morning.

51827
 

I893469365902345609348566

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 20, 2021
543
132
On a lighter note, I plan on hotwiring one of these pussy scooters with my portable 72V battery in the morning.

View attachment 51827
Electric scooters are deathtraps. This guy toppled over for no reason I could see. I stopped to see if he was ok. He was still an idiot. As he was getting back up, he shouted "It's a show mate!"

 
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portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
604
176
It's Liverpool innit...by the time I get the battery sorted some fecker will have robbed it anyway....
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,300
3,213
'I was nearly in tears' - local councillors open up on the aftermath of Ely bike crash

" Councillors representing Ely have said more police visibility in the area could help rebuild trust in public institutions following a fatal electric bike crash and riots."