Help! TSDZ2 - Power cuts out after 60 seconds, no LCD, no torque

[bikechina]

I have a TSDZ2 on my mountain bike and have been using it trouble free for about 5 months. Now it suddenly stops working within 60 seconds of starting out. The LCD goes blank and motor torques stops. The battery is fully charged. If I disconnect the battery and reconnect, it will work for about 60 seconds before all goes dead. What should I do?

Thanks!

 

[matthewslack]

I have a TSDZ2 on my mountain bike and have been using it trouble free for about 5 months. Now it suddenly stops working within 60 seconds of starting out. The LCD goes blank and motor torques stops. The battery is fully charged. If I disconnect the battery and reconnect, it will work for about 60 seconds before all goes dead. What should I do?

Thanks!

Have you got the battery voltage shown on the display? If not see if that can be shown, and watch the reading as you ride.

It sounds like a battery problem. The fact it comes back on after disconnecting, which will have given the battery a short recovery fits with that. If it is you will see voltage dropping badly in the 60 seconds it is working.

 

[Nealh]

Can you confirm the actual battery voltage rather then just say it's fully charged, fully charged can be ambiguous without exact voltage figures.

 

[bikechina]

Thanks for the insight. I do not have a voltage reading on the LCD, but I do have a meter. Is there a way I can hook up the hand held voltage meter to the battery and read it while using the bike?

 

[matthewslack]

Thanks for the insight. I do not have a voltage reading on the LCD, but I do have a meter. Is there a way I can hook up the hand held voltage meter to the battery and read it while using the bike?

What I do is get an extra set of connectors to plug in between battery and motor and make a little wiring harness with meter probe points.

Or for cables I'm less precious about, I just cut the cable and solder in what I want.

 

[Nealh]

For a reading in use you may be able to add a fly lead from the battery connector, if not then form the motor controller.

For charging take a battery reading when hot off the charger.

 

[bikechina]

Have you got the battery voltage shown on the display? If not see if that can be shown, and watch the reading as you ride.

It sounds like a battery problem. The fact it comes back on after disconnecting, which will have given the battery a short recovery fits with that. If it is you will see voltage dropping badly in the 60 seconds it is working.

Thanks so much for your help!

I hooked up a volt meter and went for a ride. Starting voltage was 56.6 v four bars on the lcd, 54.7 v 3 bars, 53.1 v lcd dead, power off. I have to unplug to restart, then only lasts a few minutes.

This is a custom build battery configured to fit into the triangle on my full suspension mountain bike. How do I check the cells? BTW, there is a 20 pin connector attached to the battery.

 

[Nealh]

What battery are you using , how many cells in series ?
Is it by any chance 14s/52v ?
56.6v is too high so the tsdz doesn't recognise it in std form, one will need to re program with OSF to use greater then 13s/48v battery.

 

[matthewslack]

Thanks so much for your help!

I hooked up a volt meter and went for a ride. Starting voltage was 56.6 v four bars on the lcd, 54.7 v 3 bars, 53.1 v lcd dead, power off. I have to unplug to restart, then only lasts a few minutes.

This is a custom build battery configured to fit into the triangle on my full suspension mountain bike. How do I check the cells? BTW, there is a 20 pin connector attached to the battery.

So I think those voltages say it is a 52V 14s battery pack. Can you confirm?

53.1V is 3.8V per cell, which is certainly not flat. Presumably the voltage stays there after the LCD switches off?

The 20 pin connector might be intended as an external balancing connector, which is not normal. That might mean there is no bms inside, so it all gets a bit mysterious.

I'm struggling to think of anything to do other than look inside, but that needs great attention to safety so tread carefully.

 

[bikechina]

Thanks again, Nealh. I will need to open up the heat shrink wrap on the battery pack and take a look. I will get back to you soon.

Also, the guy who build the bike suggested I get this for programming:

Eco Cycles – Opening Soon

www.eco-ebike.com

Do you think I need it?

 

[Nealh]

tsdz won't work with 14s and from the original voltage, the op is only part charging anyway. WIth OSF one can configure cells as 14s and it may work, but generally the std firmware will be looking for 13s and 54.6v max. It is simply cutting out to over voltage and the fact the firmware doesn't recognise 14s.

 

[Nealh]

Thanks again, Nealh. I will need to open up the heat shrink wrap on the battery pack and take a look. I will get back to you soon.

Also, the guy who build the bike suggested I get this for programming:

Eco Cycles – Opening Soon

www.eco-ebike.com

Do you think I need it?

Simpy put yes, you may also may need to change to an OSF display as well for 14s which then opens a bigger can of worms.
The std supplied displays only have config for 36 or 48v in the OSF for them.

Also look at swizz's thread.
Experiences with Open Source Firmware on the Tongsheng TSDZ2 | Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community

 

[Bikes4two]

Simpy put yes, you may also may need to change to an OSF display as well for 14s which then opens a bigger can of worms.
The std supplied displays only have config for 36 or 48v in the OSF for them.

Hi Neal - I've just opened up the Java configurator for the OSF and in the 'battery cells number' box, the pop-up indicates that you can enter 14 for a 52v battery.

The motor type (36v or 48v) is a separate setting but seeing as I dont' have a 48v motor nor a 52v battery, I'm not able to test these configurations out.

And I'm just wondering why you may not be able to use one of the stock displays (vlcd5, vlcd6, XH18)?

I'm still on the learning curve hear, so please forgive my questioning

 

[Nealh]

I haven't download the Java OSF so have only seen posted screen shots of older OSF which don't show the little drop down box with 14s. Good news then that one can configure 14 cells.
BC will have to venture in to the OSF world to configure his set up to work correctly.

I have a 12s bottle battery so when the time comes I shall use that.

 

[bikechina]

So I found a local guy on Craigslist that opened up the battery pack and found that one or more of the spot welds failed. He also removed the BMS and said I don't need it, but I need to watch the charger when it is charging and stop it when it starts blinking red/green.

 

[matthewslack]

So I found a local guy on Craigslist that opened up the battery pack and found that one or more of the spot welds failed. He also removed the BMS and said I don't need it, but I need to watch the charger when it is charging and stop it when it starts blinking red/green.

You DO need a BMS.

Any future cell level issues with no BMS may result in a battery fire during charging, with the building it is in a likely casualty.

 

[Nealh]

Only a fool removes a BMS as not only does it stop low discharge and prevent the battery from becoming scrap it in most cases will deal with top end balancing during the charge process. One wouldn't want a cell seeing more then 4.2v for too long and a BMS prevents this.
Some do go without a BMS esp those using lipo where close monitoring is important and the a balance charger is used to monitor each cell, with lion there are multiple cells in a parallel group they can't be looked after as a single cell but are as group of cells forming a single parallel group so a BMS monitors that group as singular cell and can even out the charge to all in the group.

Relying on a lion charger with no BMS will in the end lead to issues, like unbalanced cells and the worst case scenario which is no joke a fire. Lion chargers don't balance cell voltages and don't cease charging, it is the BMS that ceases to accept more charge from the charger and at this stage disconnects power between itself and the charger and is why the charger led turns Red.

Without a BMS one has to monitor the charging level of each of the 14 cell groups and also have some way of knowing the discharge voltages as well.
Simply put don't omit a BMS unless you have extensive knowledge of monitoring during charge and discharge.

 

[Nealh]

You need to get the BMS reinstated for your safety and the safety foremost of others if you live in a household or within a housing community.
Also make sure your insurance is up to scratch as your battery in now a liability which you really don't understand.

Where do you live in the world ?

 

[bikechina]

Thanks all for the dire warnings and gory details. I live in San Francisco, and will either get the BMS reinstalled, or buy a new battery pack with a BMS.

Any suggestions on where can I get a triangular shaped battery made to fit my mountain bike?

 

[Nealh]

It is common to here of BMS not being used in the States, I'm afraid a lot of that comes from/via the ES forum over their where some nasty fires have occurred and sorry to say the bullish talk often seen on that forum.