TSDZ2 On a single speed

[xander02]

Hi, I'm looking to purchase a TSDZ2 for my single speed commuter bike. My current single speed is a 47t crank and 17t rear. I understand the TSDZ2 comes with a 42t standard.
Has anyone had experience with this motor on a single speed? If so any recommendations? Gearing ratio that works best and allows speed of around 20mph?

Thanks

 

[anotherkiwi]

http://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Somebody did exactly that on Endless Sphere, but it seems to me to be absolutely pointless. A Q100H is a lot lighter, a lot more powerful and a lot more reliable. Why would you want to drive a chain to drive the wheel and lose some efficiency, when you can drive the wheel directly?

 

[xander02]

A really good point d8veh. I have been debating on whether to go hub or mid drive for ages...
I'm leaning more towards the mid-drive as it means I won't have to change my rear wheel and get a new rim threaded etc
To match my front wheel. It's a rather trendy (cringe) fixie set up at the mo so anything to make it look stealthier as possible.
My commute is only 8km each way and pretty much flat so I'm only looking for some support en route home (lazy).

It looks as if the person who did one previously on a single speed didn't have any problems with the higher single gear ratios from starting off. Would be interested to hear if it's still going strong.

I still could be swayed to get a hub though...

 

[Woosh]

Somebody did exactly that on Endless Sphere, but it seems to me to be absolutely pointless. A Q100H is a lot lighter, a lot more powerful and a lot more reliable. Why would you want to drive a chain to drive the wheel and lose some efficiency, when you can drive the wheel directly?

it's not completely pointless, if you enjoy riding a single speed. The system is practically foolproof for installation, the assist level goes a long way to replace the gears. The price is not bad for a torque sensing system.
To be fair, we also tested with an SRAM automatix, it's certainly better than keeping the bike in single speed.

 

[xander02]

it's not completely pointless, if you enjoy riding a single speed. The system is practically foolproof for installation, the assist level goes a long way to replace the gears. The price is not bad for a torque sensing system.
To be fair, we also tested with an SRAM automatix, it's certainly better than keeping the bike in single speed.

Thanks woosh. Is there a gearing set up that you would recommend for the TSDZ2 that it would be able to cope with getting away at the start and still going a comfortable cadence near my wanted top end (20mph)

 

[anotherkiwi]

What is the cadence of the motor where it's sweet spot is? That is the question you should be asking first. That is why I posted a link to a cadence calculator. From personal experience that one is spot on if your exact tyre size is in the list. The GSM is ever so slightly under my preferred cadence so I am going to up the voltage to make it spin a little faster.

To give an answer to your question I had no problems starting off on the flat in 4th gear with the standard chainwheel - 46:18 - IIRC, now I can also use 42:15 and assistance level 2 or 3. You are used to riding a fixie so you will probably have no problems with 42:15 or 42:13 which will give you your desired speed at a cadence of 90 or so.

 

[xander02]

What is the cadence of the motor where it's sweet spot is? That is the question you should be asking first. That is why I posted a link to a cadence calculator. From personal experience that one is spot on if your exact tyre size is in the list. The GSM is ever so slightly under my preferred cadence so I am going to up the voltage to make it spin a little faster.

To give an answer to your question I had no problems starting off on the flat in 4th gear with the standard chainwheel - 46:18 - IIRC, now I can also use 42:15 and assistance level 2 or 3. You are used to riding a fixie so you will probably have no problems with 42:15 or 42:13 which will give you your desired speed at a cadence of 90 or so.

Great info, thanks anotherkiwi .

To answer your question, i really have no idea, bit of a novice at this stuff.

I think I'm going to try the stock 42T chainwheel and leave my 17t at the back and give theta a go. I'm running 700c rims and i hope that set up wont be too harsh for the motor and will hopefully give me a recent speed at 90 cadence. I could be tempted to switch out the stock to a little higher to reduce the cadence but I'm cautious I don't want to ruin the motor on the first outing.

Out of interest have you used a throttle on your set up? I wonder how the TSDZ2 would handle a throttle setup. On evening rides I could be tempted to move over to a throttle to prevent me returning home in a sweaty mess...

 

[anotherkiwi]

No, PAS only.

 

[franmav4]

I just completed my single speed TSDZ2 on a 20". I am currently running 53/13 which is roughly 82-83 gear inches. This gives me about 22mph topped out - PAS only. Main issues you have to worry about is chain alignment if doing single speed - the tsdz2 sticks out a lot to the right. Other than that, it accelerates well and climbs at 19-20mph. I could probably get a bigger chain ring with the 130bcd spindle.
It is my first build, so I can really compare it to any other setup at the moment, but I am currently building another single speed with a Q100H - I can already see this will be an easier route with a lot more options.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'd be interested in your comparison after you've done the Q100.

 

[xander02]

I just completed my single speed TSDZ2 on a 20". I am currently running 53/13 which is roughly 82-83 gear inches. This gives me about 22mph topped out - PAS only. Main issues you have to worry about is chain alignment if doing single speed - the tsdz2 sticks out a lot to the right. Other than that, it accelerates well and climbs at 19-20mph. I could probably get a bigger chain ring with the 130bcd spindle.
It is my first build, so I can really compare it to any other setup at the moment, but I am currently building another single speed with a Q100H - I can already see this will be an easier route with a lot more options.

Great to hear, please let me know how you progress with the Q100, would be great to hear.

 

[xander02]

it's not completely pointless, if you enjoy riding a single speed. The system is practically foolproof for installation, the assist level goes a long way to replace the gears. The price is not bad for a torque sensing system.
To be fair, we also tested with an SRAM automatix, it's certainly better than keeping the bike in single speed.

Hi woosh, do you know where I can get hold of a SRAM Automatix freewheel version? Interested in this set up.

 

[Woosh]

Hi woosh, do you know where I can get hold of a SRAM Automatix freewheel version? Interested in this set up.

We have one of those among our test bikes:

https://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/catalog/product.php?CI_ID=18367

the bike is a bit rubbish but it does do the job.

 

[franmav4]

I have an automatix freewheel which I plan to put on to my tsdz2 setup. I use it on a daily bike at the moment and Ive done the mod to have the second gear switch over at 15-16mph. I am also torn between just putting a 58t chainring on. It is a regular automatix so the main issue for me is that i lose out on my rear disc brake. There is a disc brake version but it is 135mm and my rear drop out is 120mm. There is also an disc adaptor available also made by a company in germany - cesur.de i think, but I havent looked to much into it.

The tsdz2 tops out at 90ish rpm where the assistance seems to drop, because I cannot generate enough torque for the sensor at that rpm maybe. It doesnt feel like its runnning out of power - if I spin hard to maybe 100rpm, I can still feel the motor kick in to top a little over 23mph. Its just I cannot maintain it that long.

Im sure that an automatix will allow it to go beyond 22mph if rpms are low.

I would run the the same 13t cog on my setup with it because it the tsdz2 can handle the climbs already and at higher speeds maybe mod the automatix to switch over at 20mph if possible. The automatix second gear is 133% I think so 109 gear inches.

Saying all that, I am happy with how my tsdz2 setup as it is...for now.

 

[xander02]

I have an automatix freewheel which I plan to put on to my tsdz2 setup. I use it on a daily bike at the moment and Ive done the mod to have the second gear switch over at 15-16mph. I am also torn between just putting a 58t chainring on. It is a regular automatix so the main issue for me is that i lose out on my rear disc brake. There is a disc brake version but it is 135mm and my rear drop out is 120mm. There is also an disc adaptor available also made by a company in germany - cesur.de i think, but I havent looked to much into it.

The tsdz2 tops out at 90ish rpm where the assistance seems to drop, because I cannot generate enough torque for the sensor at that rpm maybe. It doesnt feel like its runnning out of power - if I spin hard to maybe 100rpm, I can still feel the motor kick in to top a little over 23mph. Its just I cannot maintain it that long.

Im sure that an automatix will allow it to go beyond 22mph if rpms are low.

I would run the the same 13t cog on my setup with it because it the tsdz2 can handle the climbs already and at higher speeds maybe mod the automatix to switch over at 20mph if possible. The automatix second gear is 133% I think so 109 gear inches.

Saying all that, I am happy with how my tsdz2 setup as it is...for now.

This is exactly what I'm looking at doing on my conversion. What size wheel do you have? and what current gearing do you have on crank and rear before installing the automatix hub? When i come to install the TSDZ2 the stock 42t and my rear 17t is going to be way way too lower gear so I think i'll end up spinning out way to early. I'll need to either change the rear or the crank gear to find a middle ground between being able to pull away and get a decent enough top speed.

I could then look to a SRAM automatix to take even more advantage.

 

[xander02]

This is exactly what I'm looking at doing on my conversion. What size wheel do you have? and what current gearing do you have on crank and rear before installing the automatix hub? When i come to install the TSDZ2 the stock 42t and my rear 17t is going to be way way too lower gear so I think i'll end up spinning out way to early. I'll need to either change the rear or the crank gear to find a middle ground between being able to pull away and get a decent enough top speed.

I could then look to a SRAM automatix to take even more advantage.

sorry just seen your previous post

 

[franmav4]

This is exactly what I'm looking at doing on my conversion. What size wheel do you have? and what current gearing do you have on crank and rear before installing the automatix hub? When i come to install the TSDZ2 the stock 42t and my rear 17t is going to be way way too lower gear so I think i'll end up spinning out way to early. I'll need to either change the rear or the crank gear to find a middle ground between being able to pull away and get a decent enough top speed.

I could then look to a SRAM automatix to take even more advantage.

If you get the optional 52t chaining that some sellers provide it with (some sell it with 42t only and others with a selection of chain rings), you can achieve roughly the same as my setup.

on a 26" wheel = 52/17 = approximately 80 gear inches
on a 700c wheel - 52/17 = approximately 83 gear inches

 

[xander02]

If you get the optional 52t chaining that some sellers provide it with (some sell it with 42t only and others with a selection of chain rings), you can achieve roughly the same as my setup.

on a 26" wheel = 52/17 = approximately 80 gear inches
on a 700c wheel - 52/17 = approximately 83 gear inches

That's perfect thanks. I think the crank gear/motor probably likes to turn a bit faster so i might try go for a 44t crank and a slightly lower gear say 14/15t.

However, I haven't even tried this motor yet so could be talking absolute b***ocks. maybe its absolutely fine handling the extra strain with higher crank pulling off....time will tell i guess.

 

[xander02]

We have one of those among our test bikes:

https://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/catalog/product.php?CI_ID=18367

the bike is a bit rubbish but it does do the job.

Thanks so much for your help! What sort of chain would you recommend using for the TSDZ2 on a single speed. Obviously needs to be strong for the high torque on start ups. Thanks