Help! TSDZ2 creaking noise

[jsisidore]

Anyone has this motor can help me troubleshoot it? The creaking noise happens when I apply pressure on the pedals. It is quite loud I can almost hear it in the traffic. I have tightened all bolts it seems it either come from the pedals themselves or the motor. The motor is about 2 months old.

I know this is a more general forum so maybe anyone knows if there is a TSDZ2 community anywhere where I can ask questions?

 

[Peddlin' Pedro]

There are others on here with far more experience of the TSDZ2 than me but from my own experience the unit is a fairly loose fit in the bottom bracket, especially at the outer faces of the BB shell, so that may be the source. It could also be a loose crank, pedal, seatpost, saddle rails... the list goes on.

Does the creak occur when seated, standing or both?

The only way I found to get my TDSZ2 to stop moving in the BB shell was to really crank down on the locking ring. Even with the unit tightened right down there's still some play so I'm also considering inserting some shims just inside the the outermost edges of the BB shell to limit the scope for pitching of the shaft in the shell. I've also noticed that the crank spindle has some free movement so may look at that too at some point.

I'm sure others more familiar with these drives will chip in shortly.

 

[jsisidore]

Does the creak occur when seated, standing or both?

Only when I apply pressure to pedals / when the motor is running. I dread taking the motor off as it was really difficult to install it. I thought maybe the nylon gear is wearing off? Or there is not enough lubrication?
There was no creaks when I installed it, tightening the bolts did not solve the issue.

 

[Peddlin' Pedro]

Only when I apply pressure to pedals / when the motor is running. I dread taking the motor off as it was really difficult to install it. I thought maybe the nylon gear is wearing off? Or there is not enough lubrication?
There was no creaks when I installed it, tightening the bolts did not solve the issue.

To be clear, only when pressure applied - as in just standing on but not pedalling - or only when pedalling?
And is there any noise when pedalling if the motor is turned off?
And does it do this when you are seated, standing or both?

The bits I mentioned before such as checking seatpost clamp, saddle rails, cranks and pedals etc. really should be checked too. You'd be amazed how many times someone's been adamant their BB is creaking and it turned out to be something completely different. Bikes are very good at transmitting noises so they sound like they're coming from a different part to the one at fault. Fundamental mechanical aspects to look at - before getting into the drive's internals - would be greasing the BB shell faces before installing the drive and also greasing the crank spindle-housing as this will be in contact with certain points inside the BB shell. You'll obviously need to remove the drive unit to do this.

If you've covered all the above then as you say, it may be something internal to the drive, in which case others are far better qualified to comment than me.

 

[vfr400]

Only when I apply pressure to pedals / when the motor is running. I dread taking the motor off as it was really difficult to install it. I thought maybe the nylon gear is wearing off? Or there is not enough lubrication?
There was no creaks when I installed it, tightening the bolts did not solve the issue.

You're worrying unnecessarily. Creaking crank motors is just the motor moving slightly in the BB. It's annoying, but not a sign of impending doom.

 

[jsisidore]

To be clear, only when pressure applied - as in just standing on but not pedalling - or only when pedalling?
And is there any noise when pedalling if the motor is turned off?
And does it do this when you are seated, standing or both?

The bits I mentioned before such as checking seatpost clamp, saddle rails, cranks and pedals etc. really should be checked too. You'd be amazed how many times someone's been adamant their BB is creaking and it turned out to be something completely different. Bikes are very good at transmitting noises so they sound like they're coming from a different part to the one at fault. Fundamental mechanical aspects to look at - before getting into the drive's internals - would be greasing the BB shell faces before installing the drive and also greasing the crank spindle-housing as this will be in contact with certain points inside the BB shell. You'll obviously need to remove the drive unit to do this.

If you've covered all the above then as you say, it may be something internal to the drive, in which case others are far better qualified to comment than me.

It's a pedelec with pressure sensor. The motor would not run if I would not pedal with pressure. But yea, I can pedal without pressure too, but then the motor would not run. There is noise only when I pedal with applying pressure.

I checked the pedals, they are as tight as they can be, should I lubricate them you think the internal gearing can make the noise?

When you talk about BB shell faces what do you mean by a shell face? Since both BB and the motor bracket are aluminium is there a need to grease it?

 

[jsisidore]

You're worrying unnecessarily. Creaking crank motors is just the motor moving slightly in the BB. It's annoying, but not a sign of impending doom.

Okay do you have this motor and experience the same issue? It began only after few months of use.

 

[vfr400]

Okay do you have this motor and experience the same issue? It began only after few months of use.

OK then. you're right. Start panicking because if you don't fix it your house might catch fire when the motor bursts into flames.

 

[jsisidore]

OK then. you're right. Start panicking because if you don't fix it your house might catch fire when the motor bursts into flames.

Don't see the reason for your edginess. You're just spamming.

 

[jsisidore]

BB is creaking and it turned out to be something completely different.

It was the nut which is pressing the motor to the the BB shell, what I did was (excuse my terminology) smashed the big ass silver nut into submission with a BB spanner and a rubber mallet, I think I was able to move in another 45 degrees.

Then I also took off the pedals, and greased the threads.

The creaking is gone, although I'm not sure what did it my money is on that big nut that is pressing the motor to the BB shell.

I put a mark on the nut to see if it will move again.

 

[Gavin]

It was nut which is pressing the motor to the , what I did was (excuse my terminology) smashed the big ass silver nut into submission with a BB spanner and a rubber mallet, I think I was able to move in another 45 degrees.

Then I also took off the pedals, and greased the threads.

The creaking is gone, although I'm not sure what did it my money is on that big nut that is pressing the motor to the BB shell.

I put a mark on the nut to see if it will move again.

Good news, however you need to keep an eye on the nut because they can vibrate loose.

Depending on the ID of your BB you might be able to turn up and press in a sleeve that holds the motor. I did this and it made a big difference to the creaking (although I subsequently removed it).

One thing to check- is your motor reduction gear housing clear of your chainstay? If it's hitting it will twist the motor in the BB and it'll never sit properly and constantly vibrate loose.

Final point regarding these motors- they're made for tinkerers. If you're hoping for a "fit and forget" conversion then you've bought the wrong motor....

 

[jsisidore]

Good news, however you need to keep an eye on the nut because they can vibrate loose.

Depending on the ID of your BB you might be able to turn up and press in a sleeve that holds the motor. I did this and it made a big difference to the creaking (although I subsequently removed it).

One thing to check- is your motor reduction gear housing clear of your chainstay? If it's hitting it will twist the motor in the BB and it'll never sit properly and constantly vibrate loose.

Final point regarding these motors- they're made for tinkerers. If you're hoping for a "fit and forget" conversion then you've bought the wrong motor....

I am a hands on type of person, a toolaholic. I had to actually file the inside of the bb shell to fit it, as the shell was deformed due to factory welding. Also I had to file the motor casing itself to fit exactly flush to the chainstay (not much a few mil deep). It's not something anyone could do, but I did it to keep my rims, that and the fact that mid-drives have better power transfer than hub drives.

 

[Charli]

OK, one tick per revolution of the crank pedalling low intensity, two ticks if pedalling hard. I ride a recumbent trike with a mesh seat that supports bum and back. Turns out that one of the tubes holding the pannier rack to the seat had a loose screw and everytime I pushed the pedals the seat moved against this screw. Took almost a week to work it out - the click seemed to be transmitting to everywhere on the trike. Synchronising with the crank doesn't mean the problem is with bottom bracket, chainring, or pedals. This post is to support Peddlin' Pedro above

 

[vidtek]

With my rig, the TSDZ2 is fitted to a Specialized Crossroads which has an aluminium bike frame.
If you press really hard anywhere on the bottom bracket area, the whole bike will creak and move slightly even when all nuts and bolts are super tight.

When on a normal ride it unnoticeable.

 

[ballerQuest]

I just found this thread because I developed the same problem last month. You can see my example here:

Shortly after this vid, I noticed the creak disappeared if I stood and cranked.
With considerable reluctance, I removed, cleaned, lubed all mating surfaces, and reassembled the motor from bike frame. I took extra time to refit the little black bracket that clamps the motor to chainstays btwn BB and kickstand bracket.

I noted witness marks on the chainstay welds which meant the bracket was mating askew, so it tended to kick over to interfere with kickstand. I decided to bevel the bracket's face so it would not interfere with this weld; the bracket now clamped easily without wandering aft. 20 minutes later I had my first 3 miles of quiet ride since 500 miles ago.

Now how to tighten my sloppy spindle...

 

[Bikes4two]

Okay do you have this motor and experience the same issue? It began only after few months of use.

Yes, I have this motor on 4 bikes that i look after (mine and 3 friends)

As @Peddlin' Pedro said above

You'd be amazed how many times someone's been adamant their BB is creaking and it turned out to be something completely different.

My first instal was on my own bike, a Dawes Super Galaxy and like you I experienced what sounded like a squeek from the BB area when pedalling - it drove me nuts.

Now, I've been maintaining and building my own bikes for several decades, but the squeek took a while to track down (and I won't bore you with all the things I tried).

Squeek One - the headset bearing needed re-greasing - yes, nothing to do with the BB but it had all the symptoms of coming from the BB as that is where it seemed the sound was coming from and only occured under peddle pressure (when of course you're pulling on the handlebars)

Things were ok for a while, then, oh no, another squeek from the BB!

Squeek Two - another long story short - the Dawes frame is what's known as a lugged frame and where the TSDZ2 Bridge Plate secures the motor against the chain stays was the problem in that the Bridge Plate was not siting squarely on the frame lug. On dismantling I could see bare metal where the plate was wearing away the lug. Repositioning the Bridge Plate solved the problem for a while but I never did entirely eliminate this re-occuring problem. The motor is now on a non-lugged frame.

So two squeeks that sounded like the motor in the BB, but they weren't.

Finally,
1. the cranks need tightening to 40nm which is way tighter than you might think (I bought a torque wrench and realised that even after having worked on bikes for a long time. I was suprised that my guess at 40nm was a long way off)
2. The lock ring - just by using the supplied tool with hand pressure is not enough - after hand tightening I tapped the tool with a mallet to get a bit more torque to something like the 40nm required on this piece too.

OK, so for some reason your motor may have a defect in which case you've been unlucky, but with 4 motors installed (and more than 5,000Km on my own), I've not had any undue problems.

The pics below are possibly from the Woosh manual for the TSDZ2 installation -a company whom I'd recommend for their excellent customer support and documentation.

 

[garyroe21]

A loose crank can cause a bike to (spam link removed by admin). All you need to do is disassemble the bolts and lubricate the threads with a product like ParkTool’s Polylube 1000. Then, fasten them as tightly as possible. If the crank keeps loosening up, it may be distorted and need replacing.

 

[Bikes4two]

A loose crank ......... Then, fasten them as tightly as possible. ..........

Hmm well, that depends on how strong a person is and how long the tool is (as in leverage) - personally I'd go for what the TSDZ2 manual says e.g. 40nm - with a socket and long bar it is quite possible to overtighten and strip threads, and distort cranks/axles.

Just do as the manual says - 40nm - if that doesn't work then look for another problem starting with a different pair of crank arms followed by an axle (the latter is a big job though).

Interestingly, the Bafang crank arms for the BBxxx series of mid drive motors are often recommended for the TSDZ2 as their 'Q' factor is better - and they are not expensive.