TSDZ2 Conversion

[guerney]

Or we could wipe your new laptop's hard drive and reinstall Windows 10. It may have crashed too many times and mangled the file system and/or registry, or anti-virus, firewall, some failed/incorrect Windows 10 update or inappropriate (for the CPU) JAVA install script prevented proper installation - it's a particular AMD, which may have caused issues for JAVA's install script. On the other hand, the push toward Windows 11 seems to be shaking up licensing - my valid Office 2010 Pro was suddenly delicensed the other week. Best keep that other older laptop safe and isolated...

 

[harrys]

Yes. I got the first screen that stopped after it detected no chips on the other end. I'm encouraged. WIll attach a motor today.

 

[harrys]

Success! I put Eco-cyles 48V stock firmware into my older TSZD2 today. I believe it's the 750 version because the max current went up to 15 amps from 12 amps. It feels a little stronger in the assist, but needs more. I want to read the mbrusa manual before I load his all-out stuff.

The new TSDZ2B I received from pswpower this week does communicate with the PC/STM link. I haven't flashed it, but the software \recognizes the motor. PSWpower sent me the wrong throtttle, so I have to see if they will resolve that. Worst case, I buy one for $9 USD shipped. Also have to get a donor bike too.

 

[harrys]

I have to apologize that I missed the excellent thread on OSF/TSDZ2 elsewhere on this forum. Most of my OSF questions were answered there.

 

[guerney]

I'm just a programmer who gets intrigued by puzzles. It's always a relief when a firmware flashing of any device goes well - I myself don't actually own a TSDZ2, and will never ever buy one, because I'm quite happy with my BBS01B and really can't see what the fuss over TS vs CS is about: At low assistance and high-ish cadence (higher than I was previously accustomed to), CS works well for me. @Bikes4two invited me over to try his TSDZ2 converted bike after tea and cakes, but alas he's too far away and I've seen to many TSDZ2 problems on this forum, which has permanently put me off. Plus I don't like cakes. On the other hand, there are many happy TSDZ2 owners, and tea and biscuits are always welcome.

It's rather mad that the same motor can be used for 250W to 750W.

That so many have sacrificed their time and controllers (and laptops, phones and an ever increasing variety of devices) developing such hacks, is amazing.

 

[Bikes4two]

I myself don't actually own a TSDZ2, and will never ever buy one, because I'm quite happy with my BBS01B and really can't see what the fuss over TS vs CS is about:

• I can do biscuits too
• As in you've not ridden a TSDZ2, I've not ridden a BBS01B either, but I was pleased to make the acquantence of someone the other day with said Bafang motor, so once I've bribed him with tea (and cake), I shall be seeking a test ride.
• My only experience with a Cadence Sensor motor was on an ePendleton and I nor my wife didn't like the method of power delivery which is why I changed the Pendelton's standard controller to a Torque Simulation one (as I described in this post here.).
• The power delivery then was like chalk and cheese, but let's be honest, some are happy to eat chalk and others cheese.

 

[Woosh]

can't see what the fuss over TS vs CS is about

CS is usually programmed with speed control: assist levels are paired with increasing speeds, level 1 with 8-9mph, level 2 10-11, level 3 12-14 etc. These pairings don't stop you go fast, they only affect how power is delivered but result in two minor irritations: 1) too much acceleration when you are on level 1 if you have a powerful motor and 2) a short spurt of acceleration when you increase the assist level. If you can pair assist levels with with current (so called current control), both these irritations are elimiated, accelerations are silky smooth. CS is then a better choice, you can go up steep hills without hard pedalling. It's like having TS and a throttle.

 

[sjpt]

Is there any reason that TS don't have a highest setting which is to give as much power as possible regardless of user input? Maybe requiring ghost pedalling. eg basically the same as CS max (current/speed are probably the same on CS a max setting?)

 

[matthewslack]

Is there any reason that TS don't have a highest setting which is to give as much power as possible regardless of user input? Maybe requiring ghost pedalling. eg basically the same as CS max (current/speed are probably the same on CS a max setting?)

There are vague references here and there to a 400% maximum assistance level, which a large company making TS bikes might feel obliged to comply with.

 

[Sturmey]

Is there any reason that TS don't have a highest setting which is to give as much power as possible regardless of user input? Maybe requiring ghost pedalling. eg basically the same as CS max (current/speed are probably the same on CS a max setting?)

I have the standard TSDZ2 with throttle which give full power irrespective of users input or whether or how hard you pedal.

 

[guerney]

CS is usually programmed with speed control: assist levels are paired with increasing speeds, level 1 with 8-9mph, level 2 10-11, level 3 12-14 etc. These pairings don't stop you go fast, they only affect how power is delivered but result in two minor irritations: 1) too much acceleration when you are on level 1 if you have a powerful motor and 2) a short spurt of acceleration when you increase the assist level. If you can pair assist levels with with current (so called current control), both these irritations are elimiated, accelerations are silky smooth. CS is then a better choice, you can go up steep hills without hard pedalling. It's like having TS and a throttle.

Confirmed, any hill is no sweat... until 45 degrees was encountered, which my particular bike and Bafang BBS01b combination couldn't handle, only because it's balance is thrown by my 19ah battery being on the rear rack (and to some extent by it's gearing). At that angle, the BBS01B motor was game, but my small Dahon folding bike's balance wasn't; rear racked battery to keep it compact-ish folding. I'm working on bringing the bike's centre of gravity forward slightly, by moving the battery forward using some aluminium box section, which will replace a pallet wood plank I used to rest the battery upon originally, because pallet wood is light and ultra treated with heat, compression and liberally dosed with toxic anti-rot chemicals. I've calculated the box section will weigh about the same, plus maybe about 100g (density of pallet wood is quite variable), depending on it's length, which I intend to keep as short as possible, unless I want to leave bolt-on room for other gizmos... which of course adds weight to the back again depending on the size of small beer fridge and shark fins, or possibly a small beer fridge with shark fins.

 

[guerney]

(and cake)

I've been like that since the French Revolution

As in you've not ridden a TSDZ2, I've not ridden a BBS01B either, but I was pleased to make the acquantence of someone the other day with said Bafang motor, so once I've bribed him with tea (and cake), I shall be seeking a test ride.

I hope your tea and cake gambit succeds! Trouble is, if he's fiddled with the firmware or not, it wouldn't be fair to judge BBS01Bs by his either - mine felt quite unridable when it arrived, and I was seriously considering sending it back... but after three progressively less extensive firmware tweaks, it's finally (for me) almost very close to near as damnit perfect.

I've lost a lot of weight and my bike is pretty light, and if you're heavier than me, again your experience of the same BBS01B converted bike, will be different to mine.

 

[guerney]

Ultimately as suggested by SW I turned off the updates on the old smashed notebook so that it remains usable.

Particularly now and if the laptop is old, it's quite often cheaper to buy an identical laptop with an intact screen on ebay, and simply swap the hard drives, than to get a broken laptop screen replaced. If identical, there shouldn't be any problems (unless Windows 10 throws a licensing fit at some detection of hardware or firmware difference, in otherwise identical looking laptops)(Never 10!
https://www.grc.com/never10.htm)

For your new laptop: You could buy a cheap secondhand £5 hard drive from Webuy.com and install Windows 7, thus keeping your existing Windows 10 as an option on it's original hard drive. You won't need to worry about Windows 7 security, if it's airgapped from the internet (after installation and license validation). The TSDZ2 firware update suite installs flawlessly in Windows 7, but on your new laptop, the JAVA install script could still be flummoxed on Windows 7, due to your particular AMD.

Or you could try cloning the hard drive (with Windows 10 and all the working firmware update programs) from your old laptop, to a new hard drive, and put that into your new laptop, to be used when you fancy a TSDZ2 firmware fiddle.

 

[harrys]

Guerny, I've owned a BBS02 since 2016 on a mountain bike. Bafang's pas levels. even with the option for 9 of them, are a bit overboosted for my riding style. I need to ride at 12 mph with my wife or slower with regular bikers. PAS 1 on my BBS02 want to run a little faster. Best way to ride then is in PAS 0, using the throttle to feather in power as needed. The BBS02 is a good motor.

Woosh is current. Current controlled pedal assist, as employed in the KT controller line. is pretty nice, as long as you can ride close to the current limit. Go a little faster, and the extra power comes from the rider. A little slower, and you ghost pedal, as the motor maintains speed.

As for why TSDZ2, I'm fortunate to be retired and able to build DIY ebikes and ride them. TSDZ2 was a good way to enter the torque sensor world, although I bought the kit in 2019 and took my time installing it. I didn't have a suitable donor bike til this year. I wanted something light. With my experience with the BBS02, plus various geared hub motor bikes, the stock TSDZ2 ranks as a pretty mild mannered bike. I'm only burning 4-6WH/mile, proof the motor isn't working too hard. I'm hoping the OSF changes my mind.