TSDZ2 36V 250 WATTS for a trike build or stick with bbs01

[peter.c]

Has any one used this or the newer model like the one cable and torque sensor want a simple to use option and cheaper option
but is it any good the tread on es is so long to wade through and to US biased got 50 pages in and

 

[peter.c]

Went to collect it today is going to be bbs01 and off road

 

[DouglasXK]

If you persisted with the EndlessSphere thread and life is too short for that, you would find that a lot of trike users have fitted the TSDZ2 motor. I assume that it suits those with some injury or disability which needs something more likely to provide exercise than a BBS motor which seems more of a moped.

 

[whiteturbo]

I have both and i prefer the Bafang, One the display is better as it shows actual volts remaining, the TSDZ2 only shows segments which is useless because by the time it drops one segment you are actually almost out of power. Second the TSDZ2's torque works the wrong way round, in that if you're knackered and not pedaling so hard it gives you less amps instead of more. Also you can fine tune the Bafang easily by buying a £20 cable and adjusting the settings. Finally you can get a Lekkie Bling Ring for the Bafang which is a narrow wide chainring, they are not available for the TSDZ2 and believe me, you need one. As to the Bafang being a moped, thats only if you are a yank and set it up on only the throttle, i dont fit the throttle on my builds because i actually want to pedal, if i didn't i would get a scooter or a motorcycle.

 

[DouglasXK]

I have both and i prefer the Bafang, se i actually want to pedal,

Your first statement is a gross exaggeration, your second is difficult to reconcile with your “wish to pedal” - both can be configured as a moped but the bafang is better at it, your third about fine tuning - you can hack into the TSDZ2 if you want but I don’t and finally this is a trike where chainline is not that critical and, in any event, there is an Italian manufacturer of an equivalent to your bling ring for a TSDZ2.

I don’t have both therefore you are in a better position to make such comments but I can and will question them.

 

[peter.c]

I did try to read more of the thread but after another couple of reads over several hours gave up a lot of the early posts are from one of the US importers
The blue gear wheel and bearing failures put me off and the torque reverse
The 52 volt hack was interesting but most posts seemed to be mixed opinions a lot involved max power max speed and melting we will have to see how woosh gets on with them
But decided that bbs01 was the right way to go power on tap at 250watt and 15.5 mph will be more than enough
It will not need to be fast just low down grunt Lekkie bling ring at 36 teeth etc
Nearly all the bits are on the bench

 

[Woosh]

I followed with interest the TSDZ2 for about 2 years and fitted a 36V 250W TSDZ2 about a year ago to one of our test bikes. I rode it only a little then took it off mainly because of the popularity of the BBS01B was very well established, there was no point for us in trying to support two products instead of one when you have the choice.
A few months ago, footpump sent me his TSDZ2 motor for repair. It gave me a chance to examine the wear and tear of this motor after about 4000 miles. I was pleasantly surprised how squeaky clean the inside was, that owes probably more to the fact that FP is one careful owner than anything else, but I was much more interested in finding out a) which part is worn and b) how easy it is to replace.
A few recurring problems I have seen with the bafang BBSes beside water damage, thumb throttle, LCD, cabling and dead controller, the pedal sensor disc and the clutch pawls. I think they are more easily damaged because of the design. I was looking for design issues with the TSDZ2 beside the exposed components. I talked to Tongsheng about the blue gear. Their view is straightforward: if you fit the throttle, you can damage the blue gear. However, it is a relatively inexpensive part to replace and also fairly easy to replace. Their willingness to give me support and my own small changes convinced me that I should work with them.

 

[peter.c]

I agree it could be a great product but not for this build
The US tinker to excess as standard product in a normal legal bike I think it is great value would like to try one

 

[whiteturbo]

Your first statement is a gross exaggeration, your second is difficult to reconcile with your “wish to pedal” - both can be configured as a moped but the bafang is better at it, your third about fine tuning - you can hack into the TSDZ2 if you want but I don’t and finally this is a trike where chainline is not that critical and, in any event, there is an Italian manufacturer of an equivalent to your bling ring for a TSDZ2.

I don’t have both therefore you are in a better position to make such comments but I can and will question them.

I have a 350w TSDZ2 with throttle and brakes, No throttle fitted. I have had it for 12 months and i use Li-Po Batteries. I have 3 battery packs, 9Ah for local journeys and a 16Ah and a 20Ah for longer journeys.I always carry the 9AH as spare when using the 16Ah or 20Ah setup because i have been caught out by the battery dying on me. The display drops one segment and within 8 miles it quickly drops the rest, its not progressive. I don't know why you are calling me a liar, you don't know me, and you have not got a TSDZ2 so how the F**k can you accuse me of "gross exaggeration". Yes i wish, and do pedal, but i have a pelvis held together with titanium plates(the reason i have ebikes). At the end of a long journey I am most in need of assistance and i live at the top of a large hill and the torque system used by the Tongsheng delivers the most power when you pedal hard, which at the end of a hard days cycling i am not able to do so it does not deliver when i need it most.
The Bafang on the other hand(as long as you have sufficient power in the battery) will, as long as you keep turning the pedals, keep delivering power, it just consumes more juice if you help it less.
With the Bafang you just buy a lead for £20, install the software and adjust to your hearts content, its easily understood even for a layman such as myself. The Tongsheng TSDZ2 needs a degree in computing just to get the software installed, and when it is installed you need a degree in Maths to understand how to adjust anything. BUT i believe an American is writing an open source program to make things easier to program AND give it a volts readout, the sooner the better in my opinion.
Can you give me the address of the italian manufacturer you mention because i would like to buy one of their bling ring equivalents.

 

[peter.c]

Started the build changed plans will start with pics soon

 

[Woosh]

The display drops one segment and within 8 miles it quickly drops the rest, its not progressive.

your problem may not due to the TSDZ LCD. do you have the same problem using just this battery or all your batteries?
It is fairly easy to check if the battery meter on the LCD works. Each bar is spaced to the next by 2V. If you compare the voltage of your battery measured by a multitester against the LCD's battery meter, you should see:

39V+: 5 bars
37V+: 4 bars
35V+: 3 bars etc.

that should show up where the problem is.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 needs a degree in computing just to get the software installed, and when it is installed you need a degree in Maths to understand how to adjust anything.

Tongsheng supply programming tools to selected importers for a reason.

About chainrings:
I will stock smaller chainrings for the TSDZ2.

 

[whiteturbo]

@Woosh Thanks for your comment its very much appreciated.
I come from a model helicopter background and have been using Li-Po batteries for many years and I understand it that 3.7v a cell is the minimum volts before you start damaging the battery, so i try(not always successfully) to keep between 4.2v and 3.7v which, as you explained is within the 5 bar range, after Li-Po's pass 3.7v they do drop rapidly and at 3.5v they are basically useless. Also at 3.5v(if you go there regular) and under, they overheat and start to puff.
So in the interest of safety i work on the principal that 3.7v is the lowest i go with LI-Po, and that is where my low volt alarm is set, so the TSDZ2 display is working as it should BUT the bar type indicator definition is far too coarse when using Li-Po's. I have no experience of Lithium ion or LifePo4 (which most people use) mainly because of cost, so maybe it would be a more useful in their case.
As you can probably tell, i am a tinkerer (not Tinker) so the Bafang brand with its ease of adjustability and voltage readout suits me better, saying that, the Tongsheng TSDZ2 has proved reliable and is more economical with the battery, and up to 25% more mileage with the same battery setup. If i could find a small voltmeter system(cycle analyst is too big) and a narrow wide chainring system i would be a happy bunny.
So going back to the original question of Bafang vs TSDZ2 i would still say Bafang because spares and accessories are easier to find and it has a larger knowledge base and adjustments and settings are more accessible.
BUT i dont think you can go wrong with either.

 

[DouglasXK]

About chainrings:
I will stock smaller chainrings for the TSDZ2.

When? I’m in the middle of my 5th TSDZ2 conversion, this one a 29er and I could do with one! I make them for friends and family.

Apart from the first which was 36v all the others are 48v 750w. Over the last 2 years the quality has improved substantially. I used to open them up before they were fitted to grease them and I still do but it’s not necessary these days. Recent problems have been with the extended speed sensor which is far too sensitive and generates too much electrical noise when set at the recommended distance from the magnet - the old ones gave no trouble. And the USB socket on the VLCD5 displays has peculiar side effects.

They are very reliable and I hope you are able to market the product successfully.

The range from these machines is very satisfying. Of course this can only be the case if you can ride it without power; using the power as and when. You can only do that if the motor is virtually frictionless. I read that there are only 2 or 3 mid-drive electric motors, one of which is the TSDZ2, which gives such low friction. I cycle regularly with a friend’s Bosch powered cycle and that bike couldn’t be ridden without power; it felt like a tank.

The LCD display on the 48volt machines (all 13S Li-Ion):
54.4v 6 bars
47.7v 5
46.7v 4
45.5v 3
45.2v 2
44.0v 1

I have cycled and measured the voltage (to check my own work) over 5,000 miles; the range below 6 bars is approximately 50% of the distance covered; so, after 100 miles you can expect a further 50 miles from 5 bars onward.

 

[Woosh]

in case some of you wonder about the chain ring on the TSDZ2, it's 42T standard 5 bolts 110 BCD.

 

[anotherkiwi]

in case some of you wonder about the chain ring on the TSDZ2, it's 42T standard 5 bolts 110 BCD.

So it could be a double?

 

[Woosh]

So it could be a double?

yes.