TSDZ2 36 V AND 48V NIGHT AND DAY

[peter.c]

I now have tried both versions in the same bike [ it started out with a bbs01 must have to much spare time ] the 36v250 watt legal version with a 17.5ah battery with sanyo ga cells and the 48v legal with a cheap no name battery 13ah the following observations

1 The 48v is the one to go for lower price for the motor by a couple of pounds
2 The 48v lower noise level and feels smother
3The 48v motor runs cooler to the touch
4 The 48v draws less current and can you can use a cheaper battery or get mega range with a Uk built battery
5 The 48v gets to the motor cut off point in any gear 1to8 the 36v cuts out 3-8 on the test bike at 15.5 mph
Personal conclusion buy the 48v if you want a good all round legal mid motor on a budget he 36v is good but the 48v is just a better all round package cost £480 -£500 for motor and the battery
But if you want to mod or more power it has still got to be a bbs02 just because the laptop is an easy option [looked at the reprogram set for tsdz it above my computer skills but found eco cycles sell controllers pre programed with a new display
The 48v is now back in its own frame

 

[dwvl]

So you didn't try the 36V motor with the 48V battery?

 

[vfr400]

The same applies to any 48v system. I don't know why people are still using 36v. 48v is better in all respects. It's more efficient, you can run with less current, so longer battery life and less noise, you can get more power and you can get more torque. The only argument for 36v is when you want extreme light weight.

 

[KirstinS]

The same applies to any 48v system. I don't know why people are still using 36v. 48v is better in all respects. It's more efficient, you can run with less current, so longer battery life and less noise, you can get more power and you can get more torque. The only argument for 36v is when you want extreme light weight.

Not so long ago 48v wasn't really practicle due to the mah available on 18650 cells. These days it's no problem with decent 3000 to 3500 mah cells being readily available

All my bikes run on 36v but I'd go 48v in the future too

 

[peter.c]

That's what I am doing no more 36 volt builds for me will put the 36 into a commuter type bike and sell it

 

[Nealh]

When you have invested in 36v and have more then one bike/battery you have to continue unless you bite the bullet and start again, it gets costly.

 

[Nealh]

So you didn't try the 36V motor with the 48V battery?

In all likely hood the controller will go up in smoke, they are not dual voltage.

 

[peter.c]

A nasty rumour is they make only one version of the controller and load different firmware to suit each model it would be great if it turned out to be true but I am not going try to overvolt
looking into the mods right up to 52v but a change of display seems to be a requirement if you want to take full advantage and more than plug and play skills on the software/ hardware side
The Kona build was intended to be basic and plain and not shout out look at this and to leave it as standard as possible for a while https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/tsdz2-accessories-parts/products/tsdz2-controller-6-pin-8-pin-36v-48v-52v looks like an option https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/tongsheng-tsdz2/products/tsdz2-w-850c-torque-sensing-pedal-assist-with-throttle-and-e-brakes-36v-48v-52v-10-18a-250-750w

 

[vfr400]

Over-volting a crank-drive bike is not such a good idea, like it is with a hub-motor because the extra voltage makes the crank spin faster. that brings two problems. Firstly, your feet can't keep up in the low gears. secondly, it'll run inefficiently when you use a higher gear so that you can slow it down enough to help it up hills. With a crank-motor, the logical choice is to increase the current rather than the voltage, but only if it can take it.

 

[peter.c]

The 48v is the first mid drive that performs as I wanted out of the box and the throttle is not required after a bafang the tsdz2 is a less frantic ride, the power delivery is progressive and not at all harsh I find I forget it is an electric bike

 

[peter.c]

Yes woosh I should have realised you had done your homework and stock the best version

 

[vfr400]

The 48v is the first mid drive that performs as I wanted out of the box and the throttle is not required after a bafang the tsdz2 is a less frantic ride, the power delivery is progressive and not at all harsh I find I forget it is an electric bike

Are you saying that you think the 48v is exactly the same as the 36v one, therefore you can convert the 36V one? I think that it's highly likely that the two versions of the motor have different windings, otherwise the 36v one would only be suitable for people with a low cadence and the 48V for high cadence.

 

[peter.c]

I am not sure about that but the link above in post 8 to eco cycles is not very clear but they seem to hint that you can put any controller to any motor with various battery settings which tongsheng say is not possible inc 52v they seem to programme and call it an overdrive version they show a video or the two versions and rpm difference the tread on ES is also not very easy to follow

 

[vfr400]

It's basic physics. Brushless motor speed is directly proportional to the applied voltage. As the speed increases with voltage, the band of maximum efficiency moves up with it.

If you wanted a 36v motor to have the same speed as a 48v and its efficiency in the same band, you would either have to use two different windings or different reduction ratios.

It's not a problem for hub-motors because you can change your gearing to get the right pedal speed, but with a crank-motor, the pedal speed is fixed to it.

Your idea might still work, but it depends on your own pedal speed. The 36v BBS01 has a low max cadence (75)and the BBS02 has a high one (100), so it looks like they use the same winding arrangement even though the Bafang guy told me that the BBS02 has thicker wire which explains the additional width. Some people find the BBS01 cadence too low, and by converting it to 48V, it gives them what they want. Whether your 36v motor will be OK or not at 48v depends on whether you find the cadence correct now because it's going to increase by 33%.

 

[Woosh]

Yes woosh I should have realised you had done your homework and stock the best version

I only stock the 48V version. I road tested the 36V version, its torque is quite a bit less.
You get the motor spinning at 4,000 RPM on either 36V or 48V, their rotors are wound differently. If you connect the 48V on the 36V battery, the LCD comes on but it won't start.
The LCDs for 36V and 48V are not interchangeable. I connected my 36V VLCD5 to the 48V TSDZ2, it did not die but it did not work either.
The controllers with and without brake/throttle functions are also different, with throttle has 8-pin plug, without throttle has 6-pin plug, presumably the 8-pin plug has additionally brakes and throttle signal pins.

I do love the 48V TSDZ2. Its 4000 RPM motor sounds a lot sweeter than the 2000RPM BBS01/BBS02.
FYI, the gear ratio on the TSDZ2 is 1:41.8, on the BBS is 1:21.9
The net weight of the TSDZ2 is 3.6kgs, BBS01 3.8kgs.
Neither is a match for the Gospade at 2.6kgs. The Gospade also runs at 4,000 RPM but sounds a little tinnier than the TSDZ2.
I run my Gospade at 36V and get the torque similar to the TSDZ2 at 48V. That makes me thing that somebody ought to make a BBS01 at 1:42 gear ratio.

Here is the label on my '250W' 48V TSDZ2:

 

[truongap]

Hi @Woosh, my motor has these label (in the attachments), the white one is quite different, the green one is empty. Don't know if my tsdz2 is fake or real, what is your opinion?

 

[Woosh]

I don't know the answer.
I deal directly with Tongsheng which has many resellers, I know some of them assemble their own TSDZ2.
Tongsheng website is here:
http://tsbicycle.net