Trying ebikes

[trex]

it's the other way round. Shops open up where they can find good local market. Most pockets of e-bikes are cities with hilly roads like Bristol and Bath, or with good biking infrastructure like Cambridge, Oxford and Southampton, or counties with hills like Devon, Cornwall, Wales. Because existing pockets are already well served, growth can only be found by national companies selling by mail order.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Rob,you have done enough postings to remember back to the Scot,Philip,Steve poster,he had that many aliases that he forget who he should be against the posting name and got himself mixed up.
At that time almost every other posting recommended only one bike marque and everything else was deemed rubbish,in fact I remember one of his postings suggested ' you would be an idiot if you bought anything else'
In the end he tripped himself up and since then that bike marque hardly gets mentioned on this forum.
There was a new bike that was a one off,when it appeared there was a whole discussion group of a number of new members,it generated a massive number of comments,primarily from the same group of people,that bike now never gets a mention and all those members have long disappeared.
There is a hard core of contributors on this forum,who give impartial comments,good or bad,those I trust because of longevity.
Because this forum is easy to join and cheap to promote upon it does lend itself to 'concert party' promotions,I suppose we have to accept such tactics against freedom and ease of accessability.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Agreed Dave, hence my wink smiley in mentioning a lobbyist.

I've also posted many times about how small the influence of this enthusiast forum is in the mass consumer e-bike world, and Frank Curran of Powabyke has also posted in a like manner.

Over 100,000 current UK e-bikers have chosen a bike without joining this forum, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Dutch, German and other continental e-bikers.
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[RobF]

Rob,you have done enough postings to remember back to the Scot,Philip,Steve poster,he had that many aliases that he forget who he should be against the posting name and got himself mixed up.
At that time almost every other posting recommended only one bike marque and everything else was deemed rubbish,in fact I remember one of his postings suggested ' you would be an idiot if you bought anything else'
In the end he tripped himself up and since then that bike marque hardly gets mentioned on this forum.
There was a new bike that was a one off,when it appeared there was a whole discussion group of a number of new members,it generated a massive number of comments,primarily from the same group of people,that bike now never gets a mention and all those members have long disappeared.
There is a hard core of contributors on this forum,who give impartial comments,good or bad,those I trust because of longevity.
Because this forum is easy to join and cheap to promote upon it does lend itself to 'concert party' promotions,I suppose we have to accept such tactics against freedom and ease of accessability.
KudosDave

Fair enough, there have been ringers, but I reckon the vast majority of posts are what they are.

I agree with you the forum doesn't, ultimately, have a huge impact on buying decisions.

Many posters seem to want their ebike plans confirmed rather than examined.

We have lots of threads along the lines of 'I want it do 30mph for 50 miles' which always go on a long time because the more members say an ebike can't do that, the more the OP posts in a bid to persuade us it can.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's no correct way to choose an ebike. All of them do what they're supposed to. I've never tried one that I wouldn't want to own. For some people, it's important to spend a lot of money, others want a cheap one. Unless they want something special, like long range or ability to drag heavyweights up hills, it's almost impossible to choose. Some people are indecisive and spend months going though all the possibilities, others just jump in and buy the first one they see. Most people go in to their local electric bike shop and buy the one that the dealer recommends without knowing about alternatives. Most of them are happy with their purchases.

I must have ridden 100 different electric bikes or more. I must have had more than 20 of my own. Just a few stood out above the crowd:

The Gocycle for being such a hoot. I can't put my finger on what it is, but just so much fun. The engineering is exquisite, and what's more they're British (?)
The Woosh Big Bear stepthrough for being so comfortable and powerful. It has to be the most relaxing bike to ride.
The Ezee Torq for its long-leggedness feel, like you could do 50 miles without thinking about it.
The Oxygen MTB for being just fast and solid.

I've tried most of the expensive bikes too. They're all nice,but I find it difficult to justify anything over £1500., but each to their own. We're all different, thankfully.

 

[billadie]

My Smarta LX8 has done over 17,000 miles in just under 5 years. It is on its second battery and third set of front tyres (2 on back) and that's about it. Has a service twice a year at LBS. Dead boring Dutch style upright, front hub, mud guard, Nexus hub gear. Usual commute is 12 mile each way.
I keep thinking about replacing it, but then I read the horror stories her eabout bikes costing twice the price and just pedal on.

 

[JohnCade]

Anyway,I feel I have distracted the posting away from the OP's original posting of where can he try e-bikes. As I mentioned before the number of possibilities to test ride e-bikes is diminishing,the events list on this forum only has the LEBC event on March 29,does anyone know of any other try an e-bike day that Paul can attend????
KudosDave

I wonder if he’ll ever be seen again anyway? He hasn’t visited since his one post so maybe it was just a whim. He certainly got a hare running though.

 

[Cyclezee]

I admire the guy who bought the Big Bear within a day of posting.

Too many prospective customers allow themselves to be drowned in a sea of information of variable quality and provenance.

We've seen what bike? threads on here go one for weeks, with the OP swinging from self-build to ready made and back again, then this model or that model.

It is only a bike, and if you are not fascinated by all the different models (I am), there's no point in agonising over websites for hours and hours.

I ventured £2.5K on the Rose without seeing or trying it.

At the time, I don't think I fully grasped the difference between crank and hub drive.

That purchase turned out OK, as did the AVE.

I did try that one, but only because the shop let me.

Having gone 60 miles out of my way to get to the shop, I was more or less having it anyway.

I suppose I find it exceptional that someone who has never ridden an electric bike makes a decision so quickly, from my experience it is rare event, in one case a customer took over 3 months before coming to a decision.
Now and again someone just places an order without any prior communication or discussion and none after the sale, my assumption is that they have already done the research.
I aslo find that some people who come for a test ride with one particular model in mind end up buying something different.

 

[Croxden]

I was two years reviewing & road testing e-bikes before finally having one. At the time I was all for having a rear hub drive until I joined this forum. The consensus at then suggested crank drives were generally better for the hills. I didn't care for the Bosch motors early on when testing but am now on my third one as they do what I want for my riding conditions.


If I was new to this site I would now be persuaded to have a rear hub motor. I think folk view this site long before they join so I don't think just a few posts are all they have seen, they have gained information that allows them to make a more informed choice. Particularly to test ride some to get the feel of assisted cycling, some haven't done it for years.

 

[Cyclezee]

Good point

I was two years reviewing & road testing e-bikes before finally having one. At the time I was all for having a rear hub drive until I joined this forum. The consensus at then suggested crank drives were generally better for the hills. I didn't care for the Bosch motors early on when testing but am now on my third one as they do what I want for my riding conditions.


If I was new to this site I would now be persuaded to have a rear hub motor. I think folk view this site long before they join so I don't think just a few posts are all they have seen, they have gained information that allows them to make a more informed choice. Particularly to test ride some to get the feel of assisted cycling, some haven't done it for years.

Good point Croxden

 

[D8ve]

Personally I recomend crank drive with rohloff if you can afford it.
Woosh had the cheap bike crown until a post yesterday.(vito uno) From LEB shop
It's all horses for courses. And a local bike shop would realy help too

 

[4bound]

Thats interesting D8ve, I have a bike with a Rohloff ( Thorn Raven Sport) and a bike with crank drive ( Kalkhoff Endeavour Impulse S11).
I would agree that the Rohloff is a vastly better hub than the Alfine hub and so my Kalkhoff would be a better bike with the Rohloff - but it seems to be something of a waste to use a hub with such a range of gears when you have the option of battery assist. Even the Alfine has a much larger range than I can envisage needing to use unless I am going to great lengths to avoid using battery power - in which case I would have been better avoiding carrying the extra weight, and used the unpowered bike.

 

[Croxden]

It's rare I use the first three gears but not unknown. Think of when the battery dies and there's that hill.

 

[SteveRuss]

I just don't see as many upcoming events at which customers can test the bikes.
I apologise if I have missed some events but nothing appears to be happening excepting the London Electric Bike Company test day on March 29,KTM and Kudos are pleased to support that dealers pro-activity. I would be pleased to hear about others???
KudosDave

A company called Atmosphere Electric Bikes are in Bristol and they have an annual hill climb (being Park Street) where they close the road and people race up on a variety of different machines.

I've been to his shop on a few occasions but went with the Kalkhoff in the end, which he can't sell. I've never made the event but if they're having one this year, I may go for a coffee and watch the different machines..!

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/atmosphere-electric-bikes-world-championships-bristol-22nd-june/

 

[Justin Fleming]

Getting an electric bike is a bit like buying a computer. You can be sensible, research and read up but ultimately you just get one that seems good for you. Then if you out grow that one, you already know what you want from the next one.

- I should also say that I've posted a quick comment on my original post about the Big Bear. For reference, before I came to this forum I was literally about to phone back and buy the http://justebikes.co.uk/products/sparta-rx-crossbar-e-bike/

I had already spoke to them about buying and was just doing a last minute check to see if I NEEDED to spend over £2000.

 

[falmouthtony]

it's the other way round. Shops open up where they can find good local market. Most pockets of e-bikes are cities with hilly roads like Bristol and Bath, or with good biking infrastructure like Cambridge, Oxford and Southampton, or counties with hills like Devon, Cornwall, Wales. Because existing pockets are already well served, growth can only be found by national companies selling by mail order.

Sorry Trex ..... Pockets of ebikes in Cornwall ... well served..... Please tell by whom. Or am I mis-understanding the post

 

[Kudoscycles]

Sorry Trex....Cambridge,Oxford and Southampton are all university dominated towns,your average student wouldn't be seen dead on an electric bike,they are for the 'rents'. I stand by my original posting that a good e-bike shop generates a loyal and repeat business but only in a 30 mile radius around him,outside of that customers either travel or take the gamble with mail order.
Its not an ideal situation but the market is too small to have good coverage.
I dont blame the retailers,many of them are lucky if they sell 12 bikes per annum,if they try to stock a good range they only have to make a mistake on a couple and thats the profit gone.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

have you heard of the term 'minimum efficient scale'? The minimum efficient scale determines how many competitors can exist in the marketplace.
The minimum efficient scale is defined as the lowest number of bikes sold at which long-run average total costs (LRATC, rents, rates, wages, tooling, fixtures and fittings, financing, advertising, communications, energy, postage) are minimized.
The market for ebikes in the UK is fairly static, the minimum efficient scale for a retailer is about £500k or about 500 bikes per annum. Now, can someone tell me how many retailers can get 500 sales a year within 30 miles radius? Given that the market is 25,000 for 64 millions inhabitants, each retailer will need to reach 1.28 millions inhabitants - not many can reach that many within 30 miles.

 

[flecc]

The market for ebikes in the UK is fairly static, the minimum efficient scale for a retailer is about £500k or about 500 bikes per annum. Now, can someone tell me how many retailers can get 500 sales a year within 30 miles radius? Given that the market is 25,000 for 64 millions inhabitants, each retailer will need to reach 1.28 millions inhabitants - not many can reach that many within 30 miles.

While true on an averaging basis Trex, local distortions can greatly reduce the population size necessary to achieve those sales.

A serious traffic congestion problem can greatly increase the incidence of cycling and e-biking.

So can a serious parking problems in a particular town and city.

Those areas providing better cycling facilities also increase the incidence.

The combination of all three is likely to produce a big reduction in the required population.
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[trex]

these local conditions make the competition rather worse for existing retailers. They attract more retailers until the bubble burst. Just look at London, 8.3 millions inhabitants: 50Cycles, LEBC, Spencer Ivy, Volt, Electric Bike Store, Just Ebikes, TETS, Halfords and Evans. Bristol, 430,000 inhabitants: Atmosphere, TETS, Yates Bike Shop. I can go on, but you already know. Beside having to compete with one another, they will also have to compete against ebay, amazon and other web shops. The only way for them to survive is to achieve higher unit price. Not easy when you have cheap Euros and Shimano Steps.