Treacherous Kalkhoff Pro Connect S

[Hugh]

Hi All,

I've emailed 50 Cycles about the following, but if anyone here has any bright ideas, I'd be very grateful.

I bought a Pro Connect S last year (November) and have been using it regularly since April for my commute, without trouble. It's now done just over 1,000 miles, and until last night, I was very satisfied indeed with it.

However, it chose yesterday evening, at one of the wettest times of the year so far, to let me down. On leaving work, I noticed what seemed to be a slight jumping of the chain every 4th or 5th pedal revolution. I thought it might be a derailleur adjustment problem at first, though there has been no sign of anything like this so far, but it continued despite my checking derailleur and chain alignment etc. I carried on until the chain jammed altogether. In order to release the chain, which had got caught up in itself around the motor drive sprocket area, I had to pull off the chain guard as my Topeak all in one tool only has Allen keys - I was unable to unscrew the little Torx screw that also holds on the guard, and unable to get the chain back on without removing the guard.

So, casualty number one - one chain guard.

I managed to refit the chain, but the jumping continued - it is so severe that my feet get thrown off the pedals when it happens, unless I'm clipped in. I carried on limping along, with the chain coming off and/or getting entangled at regular intervals, until it finally, near home, came off so badly that it completely detached itself from the motor drive sproicket. I pedalled the rest of the trip in low gear so the derailleur could take up the slack in the chain, and got home without further mishap. The chain did not jump at all during this part of the ride, so it seems as if the problem must relate in some way to the drive sprocket.

The chain is (relatively) clean and regularly lubricated with WD40 or similar; it is not obviously worn or damaged.
The same applies to sprockets and chainwheel - all a bit grubby but look OK.

The motor turnsthe disconnected drive sprocket quite happily.

So, the bike is now effectively unusable - all bright ideas gratefully received.

Thanks very much,

Hugh

 

[tillson]

From what you say, chain tension could well be the problem. Wear in the drive is unlikely after just 1000 miles.

Have you checked the chain guide at the motor end? I remember a few people reporting that the pivot bolt became loose on their bikes. (I am assuming the S has a front tensioner / guide sprocket)

Have you removed the chain recently? Silly I know, but it is easy to thread the chain incorrectly.

 

[carpetbagger]

i know you said you have checked the chain but i had similar type of chain jumping and only realised what it was when half of a chain line sheared and the chain came off altogether I would be tempted to inspect all the chain links carefully. This happened at almost 1000 miles........

 

[eddieo]

So is this the downside of Panasonic system? That the crank driving through the gears stresses the running gear more then a hub driven bike?

Have heard rumblings re gear changing as well, I only ask as I am thinking of changing to Panasonic. Is the pro connect S the only "sport" that kalkhoff produce? as have seen criticism re comfort....what do you think?

 

[tillson]

So is this the downside of Panasonic system? That the crank driving through the gears stresses the running gear more then a hub driven bike?

Have heard rumblings re gear changing as well, I only ask as I am thinking of changing to Panasonic. Is the pro connect S the only "sport" that kalkhoff produce? as have seen criticism re comfort....what do you think?

I don't know Eddie. I have done 1000s of miles on the original chain and sprockets without a hint of trouble. My gear system is the Alfine hub gear though, which I think uses a slightly more hefty chain. I could be wrong about the chain, but I'm sure someone will put me right if I am.

I think the Pro Connect is OK comfort wise as long as you keep to the road and keep it out of pot holes.

I'm not sure what the Pro Connect S offers for the extra dosh. My standard Alfine model fitted with an 18 tooth rear sprocket great for quick commuting type rides. I have not ridden an S model, but it would have to deliver a lot more to make me part with the extra cash and from the Spec, I can't see it doing that.

 

[flecc]

This sort of problem on the Panasonic motor units is often due to a problem with the chain wrapper/tensioner arm and jockey wheel that keeps the chain running tightly around the drive sprocket. If the arm has come adrift or is out of adjustment the drive sprocket teeth can jump past the chain and cause this snatching.

Check this out, and also check the chain along it's length as carpetbagger says. 50cycles will be happy to advise on any adjustment needed for the wrapper/tensioner arm on the S version.
.

 

[daniel.weck]

The chain is (relatively) clean and regularly lubricated with WD40 or similar

WD40 is not a lubricant, it is a water repellent (with somewhat similar properties to ACF-50). You need to use proper oil or silicon-based chain lubricant.

Cheers, Dan

 

[Polar753]

My chain gets unhappy if it isn't looked after, especially if you go out in the rain then leave it for a few hours. I think the links start to rust and get seized.

Turn it upside down and peddle gently, any bad links are obvious, as said before use a good oil like GT85 etc and don’t just dump the bike after riding in the rain.

I used one of those hot glue guns to fix my chain guard and it worked a treat. Hope you get it sorted.

P.S. Suspension seat post sorts out the poor roads, I still prefer a steel frame for the ride quality. Does that make me old?

Changing to a larger motor sprocket helped the chain run a bit smoother to, I didn't think it made much difference with the smaller rear one.

 

[Hugh]

Thanks

Dear All,

thanks for advice. I put the beast on a stand this afternoon and lo and behold,

a) one chain link sticking - now eased with a link remover, and re-lubed
b) the guide thingy was bent where the chain had forced its way out - bit of judicious pliers work sorted it.

Fingers now firmly crossed.

Re other points:

How long (distance-wise) is it reasonable to expect a chain to last, given presumed extra stress on such a long chain compared with a 'normal' bike?

I still go for WD40 or similar - done me OK for 35 years and this is the first time I've ever had chain trouble.

Pro Con S, with a suspension seatpost and decent saddle is very comfortable, so much so that I've spent some time trying to get my other bikes to replicate its riding position.

Lastly, for me, the extra oomph, gearing range and really good Magura rim brakes make the premium worthwhile.

Thanks again, and in Arnie's immortal words, 'I'll be back'.

Hugh

 

[NRG]

WD40 is not a lubricant!

Its mainly a solvent with about 10% made up of a very light base oil (not lubricant) which is left behind after application to provide a very thin (and temporary) protective layer against corrosion.

This guy 'aint wrong

Why WD-40 is Bad for Your Bike Chain - Bicycle Tutor

 

[Tim]

So is this the downside of Panasonic system? That the crank driving through the gears stresses the running gear more then a hub driven bike?

Have heard rumblings re gear changing as well, I only ask as I am thinking of changing to Panasonic. Is the pro connect S the only "sport" that kalkhoff produce? as have seen criticism re comfort....what do you think?

There's a new Sahel in the works for 2011. It's a Sport model with an 11 speed Alfine hub. It is rather expensive with that spec... but still less than a Flyer!

 

[flecc]

So is this the downside of Panasonic system? That the crank driving through the gears stresses the running gear more then a hub driven bike?

There is a little more stress than on a standard bike, not a problem with the latest hub gears though, like Shimano's Alfine 8. It was some of the older hub gears like the now discontinued Nexus 4 that weren't strong enough for long term use, handling both power sources.
.

 

[deadmonkey]

This sort of problem on the Panasonic motor units is often due to a problem with the chain wrapper/tensioner arm and jockey wheel that keeps the chain running tightly around the drive sprocket. If the arm has come adrift or is out of adjustment the drive sprocket teeth can jump past the chain and cause this snatching.

Check this out, and also check the chain along it's length as carpetbagger says. 50cycles will be happy to advise on any adjustment needed for the wrapper/tensioner arm on the S version.
.

I think Chain Wrapper and Tensioner Arm should be Flecc's copyright. If I search the web for those two and Kalkhoff the only two matches I get are this thread and the other one here - http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4851-2010-kalkhoff-range-2.html

I was hoping to find something specific which would tell me which was which as I think mine may need tweaking. After 1700km I've currently got a slight slippage at maximum cadence, ie. top gear if I push particularly hard it will slip, but mostly I'm trundling along doing 20 miles a day at 20-30 km/h without it occurring.

From other threads here I believe all the components should have a few miles in them yet, so I'm hoping that a bit of tweaking can sort it out. I'm pretty sure I've read someone saying similar about Tensioner Arms in another thread too and that they cured it by adjustment, so if I can figure out which it is it will be a good start

 

[Blew it]

All is revealed on flecc's website

 

[HarryB]

How long (distance-wise) is it reasonable to expect a chain to last, given presumed extra stress on such a long chain compared with a 'normal' bike?



Hugh

Depends on how you use it, how you look after it, what you lubricated it with. Plenty of people here seem to get 1000s of miles out of their chain but mine was replaced at 1400 miles. The first sign of wear was the chain jumping off the chainwheel which is a right pain as you know. I definitely think that the hub geared bikes are much better in this respect. I used to replace my chain at around the same time on a normal electric bike (Cytronex) but the chain was much less worn than on my Emotion when it came off.

 

[HarryB]

I think Chain Wrapper and Tensioner Arm should be Flecc's copyright. If I search the web for those two and Kalkhoff the only two matches I get are this thread and the other one here - http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4851-2010-kalkhoff-range-2.html

I was hoping to find something specific which would tell me which was which as I think mine may need tweaking. After 1700km I've currently got a slight slippage at maximum cadence, ie. top gear if I push particularly hard it will slip, but mostly I'm trundling along doing 20 miles a day at 20-30 km/h without it occurring.

From other threads here I believe all the components should have a few miles in them yet, so I'm hoping that a bit of tweaking can sort it out. I'm pretty sure I've read someone saying similar about Tensioner Arms in another thread too and that they cured it by adjustment, so if I can figure out which it is it will be a good start

I am sure that the tensioners are different on the hub and derailleur bikes. Certainly mine is not spring tensioned as with the Agattu - it is static. It seems that the tensioner is unlikely to be the source of the problem in this case or with the panasonic/derailleur set up.

 

[flecc]

Yes, the illustration on my website is specific to the hub gear bikes, the derailleur bikes like the Pro Connect use a fixed idler which also is just a chain wrapper.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

Chain Lube

My favorite chain lube is this one Halfords | Bikehut Dry Wax Bike Lube 125ml
The chain should be clean when applied and because it dries is non sticky which helps prevent dirt and grit from sticking to the chain, thereby reducing wear.

 

[NRG]

I've been using synthetic gear oil EP90 as I've a load of it in the garage, apart from the smell it seems to work very well! Just ordered some Castrol racing chain lube (wax) to try as the gear oil can be a bit messy to apply.



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[Biged]

I still go for WD40 or similar - done me OK for 35 years and this is the first time I've ever had chain trouble.


Hugh

35 years ago i used mono-grade mineral oils in my car, but would not even use them in my lawnmower now!

You obviously do lots more miles now, 1000 since November, you have a nice bike that cost a great deal of money, spend a few quid on some decent lube, it's the best maintenance money you can spend, bike or car.