Traditional ebike vs (legal) moped/scooter ebike

[FatBob]

While looking for an ebike (traditional/bicycle design), I came across these ebikes that look more like mopeds/scooters ("moped"):

https://eriderbikes.com/electric-bikes/

Initially I was very excited (as they appear to comfortably cope with my weight) and even considered taking a CBT course with the expectation of getting a version that can go faster than 25 km/h – but then I wondered if forums users could help bring me back to earth with objective pros and cons of the two types of designs of ebikes.

The only negatives I could think of was, apart from space requirements, that these mopeds weigh more than twice as much as traditional design ebikes ("bike"), so I imagine need more frequent charging. I wouldn't be going off-road so no issue there.

Also, given the basic weight of the moped, will the moped struggle / move at a laughably slow pace on hills (my planned commute has a 3% gradient) compared to a bike? Is changing a flat tyre on the mopeds more difficult than a bike? Are tyres more expensive for the mopeds? Will it be more dangerous as drivers would expect the moped to go faster than the 15 mph max? They seem much cheaper than, say, Riese&Müller bikes, so should I be worried about build quality and longevity?

 

[vfr400]

Some of them are quite good if you get a battery of at least 48v and a fair amount of capacity, like the Eskuta. Some have throttles. I heard that Eskuta got special dispensation for them, but I never had that confirmed. Without the throttle, you only have to rotate the pedals slowly without effort to power the motor. It just looks a bit weird to see someone pedalling one. legally, you're limited to 15 mph. Some can be derestricted up to about 20 mph by joining a pair of wires on the controller.

 

[Wicky]

The kind of vehicle that can bridge between push bikes, pedelecs and bigger bikes i.e. C125 or new CT125

Funnily enough saw this earlier today

IIRC the bike in your video technically can use cycle / shared paths but if you do prepare to take some stick from pedestrians and likely the police wanting to ask why you aren't wearing a lid.

A lot of it comes down what you need it for and where you intend to ride, distance and outlay costs.

 

[RossG]

The are big in the US ATM.

Revel - Electric Moped Sharing - New York

Welcome to the all-electric moped rideshare that makes getting around Brooklyn fast, affordable and way more fun. Just download our app and go. Revel. And go.

gorevel.com

 

[FatBob]

Found these too!

Kuma Bikes:

VSN https://www.kumabikes.com/vsnpage
K1 https://www.kumabikes.com/k1site

Suddenly excited which means there must be bad downside to these!

 

[WheezyRider]

If it is not counted as a pedal e-bike, the insurance can be quite expensive.

Even if these electric mopeds are limited to 25 kph, are their motors still only 250W?

 

[PP100]

Given the fuller saddle (which cleverly hides the battery ) the extra comfort might be helpful given I have issues with numbness on most bike saddles I've tried.
The "downside"? Are there any bureaucratic or technical obstacles for these in the UK that will make them currently harder (or illegal) to adopt?

 

[FatBob]

From the websites they all appear limited to 15 mph, pedal-assisted, with 250W motors and 48V Li-ion batteries.

 

[mike killay]

Given the fuller saddle (which cleverly hides the battery ) the extra comfort might be helpful given I have issues with numbness on most bike saddles I've tried.
The "downside"? Are there any bureaucratic or technical obstacles for these in the UK that will make them currently harder (or illegal) to adopt?

I think that it depends on what you want to do with it.
If you ride it on roads, the Police will probably stop you if you do not have a crash helmet. Then they will notice that you do not have a number plate.
It will take a bit of explaining that it is technically a pedal cycle.
Eventually, if enough people buy them, then they will be common place and accepted.
I use a lot of cycle paths and shared use paths. I imagine that pedestrians on these paths will be annoyed at what they think is a motor cycle.
At present, most people do not bat an eyelid at what looks like a pedal bike on a footpath (other than those folk who like to be pernickety) provided that it is not going at a speed that alarms them.
Finally, although they look intriguing, what is the point of them? The small wheeled ones might be difficult to pedal unaided, we do not need leg shields at our speeds although they might be a tad warmer in winter.
I expect that in years to come, proper electric mopeds/mini scooters will be developed and able to go to 30 mph or so. But batteries will have to get a lot cheaper.

 

[flecc]

We've had two members with these, Synthman and Kinivinnie.

They are perfectly lagal and neither have been troubled by the police, Indeed they chatted with Synthman asking him about the bike with genuine friendly interest.

Like all pedelecs they are far more powerful than 250 watts, typically 600 watts or more peak power. The pedals have limited usefulness being single gear and very low geared, so mainly for assistance at low speeds.

So if happy to moped around at low speeds they are fine, but don't think of riding them as cycling.
.

 

[FatBob]

We've had two members with these, Synthman and Kinivinnie.

They are perfectly lagal and neither have been troubled by the police, Indeed they chatted with Synthman asking him about the bike with genuine friendly interest.

Like all pedelecs they are far more powerful than 250 watts, typically 600 watts or more peak power.

Sorry, I am quite new to all this. What do you mean? How does this fit in with the EAPC regulation for "maximum continuous rated power" of 250 W?

The pedals have limited usefulness being single gear and very low geared, so mainly for assistance at low speeds.

So if happy to moped around at low speeds they are fine, but don't think of riding them as cycling.

I plan to use whatever I eventually buy for 95% commuting to work (10 miles round trips, includes a ¾ mile long gradient 3%) with 5% use for 20-mile round trips mostly flat/gentle inclines. Is there a way of estimating the speed on an incline as I wouldn't want to crawling up the 'hill' at 3 mph while pedalling furiously.

Regarding pedalling, this reviewer seems to pedal with no issues at various points in the video. Am I missing something?

 

[Wicky]

Is there a way of estimating the speed on an incline as I wouldn't want to crawling up the 'hill' at 3 mph while pedalling furiously.

Test ride first?

More you pedal the more range / uphill you can go.

 

[vfr400]

Sorry, I am quite new to all this. What do you mean? How does this fit in with the EAPC regulation for "maximum continuous rated power" of 250 W?

It's "rated" power, which has no relationship to output power.

 

[PP100]

Sorry, I am quite new to all this. What do you mean? How does this fit in with the EAPC regulation for "maximum continuous rated power" of 250 W?


I plan to use whatever I eventually buy for 95% commuting to work (10 miles round trips, includes a ¾ mile long gradient 3%) with 5% use for 20-mile round trips mostly flat/gentle inclines. Is there a way of estimating the speed on an incline as I wouldn't want to crawling up the 'hill' at 3 mph while pedalling furiously.

Regarding pedalling, this reviewer seems to pedal with no issues at various points in the video. Am I missing something?

When asked in the comments , guy says "it does work on throttle only, yes, but not giving full power"
Surely though that is still not legal?

 

[vfr400]

When asked in the comments , guy says "it does work on throttle only, yes, but not giving full power"
Surely though that is still not legal?

The law is a funny thing. It's about precedents and interpreting wording. Here's what they say on the government website. There's clearly a mistake on the motor power, which should say "rated "power but says maximum output power. That makes virtually all ebikes illegal. There is no mention of throttles not being allowed.

What counts as an EAPC
An EAPC must have pedals that can be used to propel it.

It must show either:

• the power output
• the manufacturer of the motor

It must also show either:

• the battery’s voltage
• the maximum speed of the bike

Its electric motor:

• must have a maximum power output of 250 watts
• should not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph

An EAPC can have more than 2 wheels (for example, a tricycle).

Where you can ride
If a bike meets the EAPC requirements it’s classed as a normal pedal bike. This means you can ride it on cycle paths and anywhere else pedal bikes are allowed.

Where you can ride
If a bike meets the EAPC requirements it’s classed as a normal pedal bike. This means you can ride it on cycle paths and anywhere else pedal bikes are allowed.

A lot of people get confused about the difference between UK law and the European directive EN15194. Bikes that comply with the European standard are legal, but compliance isn't mandatory for an owner, though I believe it is for sellers. The seller should be able to supply a certificate of compliance. That's all you need.

Some of these scooters have a 6km/h max throttle for compliance, but you can change it's operation to full-ranger by joining some wires or adjusting some settings. You should make sure you know how this works before you hand over your cash if you want a full-range throttle.

 

[flecc]

Sorry, I am quite new to all this. What do you mean? How does this fit in with the EAPC regulation for "maximum continuous rated power" of 250 W?

As vfr400 has posted, 250 watts is a rating only to meet certain conditions for legal compliance, it doesn't refer to actual maximum power. No pedelecs have only 250 watts of actual power, they'd be rather useless with that only. It's not a worry for you if rated at 250 watts.

I plan to use whatever I eventually buy for 95% commuting to work (10 miles round trips, includes a ¾ mile long gradient 3%) with 5% use for 20-mile round trips mostly flat/gentle inclines. Is there a way of estimating the speed on an incline as I wouldn't want to crawling up the 'hill' at 3 mph while pedalling furiously.

They manage hills reasonably well, but don't expect to climb at 15 mph or anything like it on real hills. Apart from anything else you wouldn't be able to pedal putting in effort at that speed since the single gear is too low. If your "hill" is really only 3% you shouldn't have any trouble since I wouldn't call that a hill, just a very gentle slight slope.

Regarding pedalling, this reviewer seems to pedal with no issues at various points in the video. Am I missing something?

Watch the video carefully and you'l see he's just spinning at times to allow the motor to keep running, but not putting in any useful driving effort. They have something called cadence sensing, just rotating the pedals allows the motor to keep running, the throttle determining how much. Usually with these single speed machines you can pedal at 8 or maybe 10 mph, but by then you're often spinning furiously if you want to add any effort to drive the bike to help the motor.

If at all possible, try one first before buying.
.

 

[FatBob]

If at all possible, try one first before buying.

Good advice. Will try to arrange it.

 

[soundwave]

your not that fat tbh iv seen bigger on mid drive bikes in the forest lol

Woosh Big Bear | MTB electric bicycle from Woosh

The Woosh Big Bear, a very sturdy electric bike 36V 15AH battery from Woosh.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Cube Acid Hybrid ONE 400 29 black´n´green | E-Bike Hardtail Shop

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[FatBob]

your not that fat tbh iv seen bigger on mid drive bikes in the forest lol

Woosh Big Bear | MTB electric bicycle from Woosh

The Woosh Big Bear, a very sturdy electric bike 36V 15AH battery from Woosh.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Cube Acid Hybrid ONE 400 29 black´n´green | E-Bike Hardtail Shop

Buy Acid Hybrid ONE 400 29 black´n´green at BEST PRICE ✓ Order Cube E-Bike Hardtail at Bike-Discount now! ➤ Cube Online Shop

www.bike-discount.de

What's the weight limit on the Cube (couldn't find it on Cube's own site)? Guy from Woosh bikes said I need to keep away from aluminium frames though.

 

[soundwave]

you wont brake the frame unless you are going off road even then the wheels will brake first hammering it dh.

2.09s and its dead lol