* * * Tour de Presteigne 2008 Details * * *

[Larkspur]

Hi Dufus,
In answer to your accusation. I can justify using a 30 mph e-bike as it was, as David said, on a closed circuit as part of an organised event, not a public road. I in no way condone the use of illegal e-bikes on public roads.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you live in a society where diferences of opinion are allowed if indeed encouraged. In our opinon it shows some of the potential of the Agattu in the "right" hands.

My offer to show how this was achieved was in response to an earlier thread expressing interest on this very forum. The use of this information (which to be honest most people could figure out on their own if they wish) is entirely at the discrection of the end user. Rumour has it that there are cars on our very roads that have the capabilty to exceed 100mph, when the national limit is 70!!!!!

I agree with you Lloyd and would definitely be interested to know what you did to the bike. Surely not just a rear sprocket change? Please do tell.

Chris

 

[jac]

i would also like to hear how it is done

jim

 

[carpetbagger]

i'd like to know if yoy can do the same to my powabyke and get 100 miles per charge off one battery.....!!!!

 

[allotmenteer]

i would also like to hear how it is done

jim

My guess is that the method involves fooling the sensor in some way. As assistance was provided from 15-30mph instead of 0-15mph this must surely involve tweaking the speed sensor in some way.

Did it provide good assistance at 25mph+?

The pro-connect sounds fantastic if you can tweak it like that.

 

[dufus25]

there are cars on our very roads that have the capabilty to exceed 100mph, when the national limit is 70!!!!!

Very true but does the law does not cap the amount of continuous Wattage allowed to the motor on an ebike in a way it does not to a car ????. Just because the road is closed, in law it is still a public highway and hence the need for public liability insurance.

I maintain that law aside, it is irresponsible to race at those speeds at what is supposed to be a fun event.

Dufus

 

[rooel]

Well, I am glad I could not make it to Presteigne (the train fare and the helmet issue), as it would have been impossible to demonstrate what my legal electric could do whilst being overtaken by all these illegals. I was surprised that last year's "results" provided two categories of "winners", restricted and not restricted, and it seems to have become worse this year.

Surely the whole idea of Presteigne is to demonstrate what can be legally accomplished on a variety of electric bikes? There is no point in showing the public the speed - and danger - of unrestricted bikes, if the public will not be able to use them on the roads.

I think there is also a possibility, if too many destricted bikes appear on the roads, (especially if any are involved in collisions, regardless of fault) that there will be calls for more regulation of electrically assisted pedal cycles (eg registration and number plates?). Then, what, for most, is a pleasant addition to the freedom of the pedal cycle (comparable to pneumatic tyres, then multi-gearing) will become a burden. Those who want to travel at higher speeds on two wheels should buy a motor bike and comply with all the regulations which apply to them.

It is also surprising that if the helmet requirement was imposed by the insurance company that there was not also a requirement that all bikes entered be declared as complying with the 1983 regulations. Given the warning in one of the above posts for anyone wanting a test ride on an illegal that body armour should be worn, it would have been more sensible for the insurance company to have paid attention to this issue rather than imposing its ill-advised helmet requirement.

 

[Lloyd_50cycles]

Dufus you're right about the law on E-bikes, but what I was getting at was that the law also states that cars can't exceed 70mph in the UK so why are you not petitioning to all car manufacturers to restrict their cars to 70mph? As for Public Liability Insurance I am covered under the company insurance policy, also through my British Cycling membership, so if I was to injure anyone or damage anybody through my own fault they are covered. I think that everyone should have liability insurance when using an E-bike on the road as they are dangerous no matter what the speed. There have been numerous posts on here detailing accidents people have had, on "legal" bikes.

As for implying I am irresponsible, I was insured, at an event with a modified bike category, riding on a closed circuit, with a cycle helmet and was clearly informing people when I was overtaking. I do think however that having the stock and modified bikes riding at different times would've been a good idea in hindsight.

Anyhow on a lighter note, I will detail all the work on project X, plus some upclose internals of the new Panasonic motor shortly. There were many different things I tried with X, some suceeded, some failed comically, but along the way I learnt a heck of alot about the Panasonic system! I will post a link to the finished article when it's done.

 

[HarryB]

The whole point about the race is that is it just a bit of fun and not supposed to be taken seriously. It is definitely not about showing the full potential of electric bikes as there is not a serious hill in sight. As has been pointed out anybody on a normal racer would win this race outright - if there was a decent hill then the electric bikes would be in with a chance. There seems to be a few people who resent people having fun, going fast, racing etc but I suppose it is the way this country is going. Live and let live and if people want to enjoy themselves like this then let them!

By the way the race is the reason I got back into the electric bike scene again. The Telegraph covered the 2006 event Batteries are definitely included - Telegraph, it certainly seemed the bikes had improved and were a lot of fun. I went out and bought a Torq and haven't regretted it at all.

 

[Tintaglia]

I do think however that having the stock and modified bikes riding at different times would've been a good idea in hindsight.

Anyhow on a lighter note, I will detail all the work on project X, plus some upclose internals of the new Panasonic motor shortly.

We enjoyed both the excitement of the "fast boys" and the fun of the less traditional entries but agree that perhaps there should be two separate events in future as the speed difference between them increases. As making the battery last is no longer an issue perhaps the races could be half an hour each, with maybe an award for the best/most unusual outfit in the fun event and less frustration/danger in the fast event.

I also think there should be a little more protection for spectators during the fast event as some of these bikes are doing 30mph (totally silently) and there were a few very near misses this year. As there is nothing to stop the locals wandering down their own High Street during the event it would be quite easy to have a serious accident involving someone not even attending the rally and that would ruin the whole fun event. It's a shame to have to get all serious about a fun event, but some of these guys were really moving. Thanks to Pete for a great event and glad the sun shone for you this year.

Looking forward to seeing your discoveries about the Panasonic motor - it has always been something of a mystery apart from Flecc's excellent website article. Do you think it has changed much from the Lafree version?

 

[ElephantsGerald]

I thought the event was good fun too, if a little hair-raising; I saw someone walking their dog on a narrow part of the course with bikes flying past!

Theres a lot to be said for a bit of rural madness, and I think the Tour is a wonderful event (one of several that Presteigne hosts, including the excellent Sheep Music, where you can often see Pete Mustill in another guise as a musician).

There is also no doubt (in my mind) that the Tour, although a bit of fun, is also a big deal and national showcase for all things electrically pedally.

My original comment on "What exactly is the point of the Tour de Presteigne then?" arose out of talking to a friend who owns a Torq.

Basically he bought the Torq because it was "the bike that won the Tour de Presteigne" (something he tells me practically every time I see him out on the bike!).

Now this chap is actually very happy with his bike, but there seems to be a possibility he bought it on the basis of a misunderstanding.

Obviously in his mind there is some prestige associated the bike that won the rally (and I suspect he's not alone in thinking this) which leaves him thinking "this would be a good bike for me".

On that basis I think the event and the PR it generates might be better served by splitting the Tour into several races each with clearly defined categories (e.g. no pedalling, battery endurance, fancy dress, hill climbing, un-modified as fast as you can go, tweaked for performance and ridden by maniacs, etc, etc.).

Regards,

Elephants

 

[WaiWonChing]

Tour de Prestigne

Ian Johnson came in first COOL as ever with his de-restricted Torq taking the prize, but Tom Gilfedder came in second grasping for breath, soaked with perspirations and legs quivering. Obviously there is a big difference for one riding with electric power assist and one doing it all with his mighty legs.

W W Ching

 

[Haku]

I have to agree the next time there's an ebike rally it needs to be split into two (or more) categories, I was struggling to keep up with everyone as my bike was restricted to 15mph, the derestricted crowd were whizzing past me like I was walking and I had a couple of hairy moments where I had to dodge people crossing the path at the church - it can't go through the churchyard again if there's an event happening there.

Does anyone have any more pics/video? I've only found one pic where you can see me on that Tour de Presteigne site, sitting at the finish line putting the top back on my drinks bottle (and the pic isn't that clear) and I'm not in any of the video posted earler. I'd just like a pic or video clip to show friends/family and say "look, that's me!"

 

[Andy Grayland]

There are new pictures and the results on Tour de Presteigne
I hope you are in one of them Haku. I know there were a lot of photographers present so some more photos and videos are to come.

 

[Andy Grayland]

As one of the organisers I would also like to personally thank Mr Ching for travelling such a long way to visit us and especially for being on the question time panel where his input was both informative and humorous.

 

[Andy Grayland]

Sorry this is in 3 sections. A bit of confusion on my part in the software. I would also like to thank all of the helpers, exhibitors and contestants. Everyone was so pleasant and I believe a good time was had by everyone.

 

[dufus25]

Dufus you're right about the law on E-bikes, but what I was getting at was that the law also states that cars can't exceed 70mph in the UK so why are you not petitioning to all car manufacturers to restrict their cars to 70mph? As for Public Liability Insurance I am covered under the company insurance policy, also through my British Cycling membership, so if I was to injure anyone or damage anybody through my own fault they are covered. I think that everyone should have liability insurance when using an E-bike on the road as they are dangerous no matter what the speed. There have been numerous posts on here detailing accidents people have had, on "legal" bikes.

As for implying I am irresponsible, I was insured, at an event with a modified bike category, riding on a closed circuit, with a cycle helmet and was clearly informing people when I was overtaking. I do think however that having the stock and modified bikes riding at different times would've been a good idea in hindsight.

Anyhow on a lighter note, I will detail all the work on project X, plus some upclose internals of the new Panasonic motor shortly. There were many different things I tried with X, some suceeded, some failed comically, but along the way I learnt a heck of alot about the Panasonic system! I will post a link to the finished article when it's done.

I find it interesting that I can come and try out the projext x bike. do you have a private road for me to use it on. other posts on here suggest that you are perfoming modifications to the gearing system that renders the bike illegal for road use prior to deleivery. I would look up the law of tort, duty of care and reasonably forseeable. If someone has a run in with a pedestrian on one of your illegal offerings, you will be held as partially responsible. yes their contributory negligence will be taken into account but there is every chance you would be done too.

I note most other manufacturers offer a switch for off road use. you are sailing very close to the wind here and I hope this comes back to bite you. Its irresponsible behaviour and I cannot beleive a distributor would put themselves in the position of selling illegal goods. You have a duty of care to your cutomers!

I also find it rather amusing that your defense to putting people in danger with your high speed riding is based on the fact that if you cause them to crash its ok because your insured.

I guess we should be grateful that you dont have any bikes to sell as this will limit the danger for a while.

Dufus

 

[jac]

i thought i was on the electric bike forum but it sounds like the health and saftey at work forum or the risk assesment forum surely most people want to read about bikes not be told what they should be doing on the road

jim

 

[Larkspur]

I find it interesting that I can come and try out the projext x bike. do you have a private road for me to use it on. other posts on here suggest that you are perfoming modifications to the gearing system that renders the bike illegal for road use prior to deleivery. I would look up the law of tort, duty of care and reasonably forseeable. If someone has a run in with a pedestrian on one of your illegal offerings, you will be held as partially responsible. yes their contributory negligence will be taken into account but there is every chance you would be done too.

I note most other manufacturers offer a switch for off road use. you are sailing very close to the wind here and I hope this comes back to bite you. Its irresponsible behaviour and I cannot beleive a distributor would put themselves in the position of selling illegal goods. You have a duty of care to your cutomers!

I also find it rather amusing that your defense to putting people in danger with your high speed riding is based on the fact that if you cause them to crash its ok because your insured.

I guess we should be grateful that you dont have any bikes to sell as this will limit the danger for a while.

Dufus

I think you're getting all this out of proportion Dufus. I am fully intending to change the rear sprocket on my Pro Connect as soon as it arrives to get a bit more assisted speed and judging from a lot of the comments I read on this forum, so are a many other people. No-one is forcing anyone to modify their pedelec - we're all grown ups and it's not like we're going to fit rockets or anything like that. The sorts of speeds we're talking about are significantly slower than some human beings can run. I notice that no-one slags of Flecc when he gives information about potential illegal modifications (and nor should they) but as soon as 50 Cycles (who have not to my knowledge suggested or done anything illegal) are implicated, some people start taking pot shots.

 

[Lloyd_50cycles]

If you are so upset that bikes are travelling above 15mph Dufus then why did you post this a little while ago?

Quote:

Yea you could be right there. it looks really smart and I bet it will fly when the rear sprocket is reduced. Im gonna stick with the cannondale for a while but may get the pro connect if my workplace get their finger out in the future with cycles to work scheme. should allow the stock situation to be resolved too.

Dufus

I think that's enough said on the issue really.

 

[JohnofCambridge]

Ground rules for Presteigne

Just got back from a holiday in the area post participating in the event.

As said elsewhere the event was marvellous.

I did wonder at the time whether the event could survive the Health and safety society! I am responsible for Health & Safety where i work and the risks we all took were far higher than would be allowed in most companies!

Two things might improve matters - maybe not to the extent the risk adverse would want, but they would certainly help.

1. As Lloyd did, as he was going around as a fast flyer - shout your presence if about to overtake at whatever speed you do so. When you are surprised by a speedster coming through silently , it can make you wobbly.

2. For all the fun it created, restrict the Chariot vehicles like the one from the TV show. It was just too wide and too slow for the narrow bits, although there was some fun in watching it disintegrate!

I also agree with someone who said there should be different categories of races/ prizes. Having every thing celebrating race winners creates too much incentive to win. Maybe the real speedsters should have another event but everyone else could compete for a range of prizes e.g best dressed competitor (man in suit, perhaps). Best home built machine etc.

Lastly, to the person who unhappily compared the Wispers to those going so much faster - don't despair. I am in my late fifties, with impaired lungs and am an ocasional cyclist over 13 stone and... I started at the back - the last one into the formation lap. If I can get into the middle of the results, then it saya a lot for wispers and the current crop of electric bikes!!!!!