Tour de France,stitch up?

[Kudoscycles]

Watching the Tour today....a breakaway happened that was 10 mins in front of the Yellow Jersey,Froome at the front of the Peleton. The Team Sky train carried Froome along at a leisurely pace (by Tour standards) and all the other teams towed their GC rider alongside.
There was no GC rider in the breakaway so Sky/Froome felt no need to chase the breakaway.
What I don't understand is that the teams competing against Sky made no attempt to pull away from the Peleton and thus never put Sky under pressure. Froome only has a few minutes over the top riders in the GC,so any rider putting a few minutes on Froome would get the yellow jersey.
If any team had a GC rider in the breakaway then all the teams would have been forced to chase the breakaway,it only needed one GC rider up there,the teams would have been forced to race all day.
That is why I think the race is a stitch up,the major teams have an agreement to keep the GC riders together as a group.
There was a stage earlier when Landa broke away,a Sky Domestique rider,who took 2 mins out of Froome,his GC rider,he never did it again....team orders....That day the Peloton fell apart,Chris Boardman described it as a brutal day,they had to race all day?
One of my employees is an amateur racing rider,he thinks I am stupid suggesting that they should race each other,all day,they would be knackered,but that is the point isn't it?
KudosDave

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The tactics are very complicated. Nobody tried to break away because they know that they can't get away.All that would happen is that Froome and his crew would chase after them and then start using their draft, so when they get to the finish, Froome would still be fresh, and he'd sprint past over the line. The GC race is won and lost during the mountainous legs, where the teams take it in turns to try and wear down the other GC riders before making a breakaway attempt, which in most cases still fails.

When you get a breakaway group, like today, nobody chases after them because they don't need to. The GC riders are only racing each other. it's not important to them that a few also-rans get a day of glory.

The time when Landa broke away, the aim was to have a man up the road, who Froome could bridge to if he could break away too, but he couldn't get away because they all knew what he was going to try. Any non-GC rider can break away because the GC riders are only racing each other. In most cases, the breakaway guys get reeled back in because the group can always go faster than a single guy.

Another critical stage for the GC riders is one of the two time trials, like the one tomorrow, when each rider just goes flat out with no help. That sorts the men from the boys.

In all the legs apart from the two time trials, team work is critical. Everybody has a role to play, mainly to ensure that the GC rider gets all the help he needs. One guy will normally hang back in case the GC rider gets a puncture, like the poor guy who had to donate his back wheel to Froome a couple of days ago, and sacrifice his own chance of getting his best ever result. That's what he's paid for. Remember a few years ago when Froome was riding for Bradley Wiggins and had a chance of a stage win, but they called him back to drag BW along.

The more you watch the TdF, the more you understand it and the more interesting it gets. It's a real game of cat and mouse coupled with real strength and stamina as far as the GC riders are concerned

 

[Mal69]

Just wake me up when the mysterious parcels start arriving.....

 

[Kudoscycles]

The tactics are very complicated. Nobody tried to break away because they know that they can't get away.All that would happen is that Froome and his crew would chase after them and then start using their draft, so when they get to the finish, Froome would still be fresh, and he'd sprint past over the line. The GC race is won and lost during the mountainous legs, where the teams take it in turns to try and wear down the other GC riders before making a breakaway attempt, which in most cases still fails.

When you get a breakaway group, like today, nobody chases after them because they don't need to. The GC riders are only racing each other. it's not important to them that a few also-rans get a day of glory.

The time when Landa broke away, the aim was to have a man up the road, who Froome could bridge to if he could break away too, but he couldn't get away because they all knew what he was going to try. Any non-GC rider can break away because the GC riders are only racing each other. In most cases, the breakaway guys get reeled back in because the group can always go faster than a single guy.

Another critical stage for the GC riders is one of the two time trials, like the one tomorrow, when each rider just goes flat out with no help. That sorts the men from the boys.

In all the legs apart from the two time trials, team work is critical. Everybody has a role to play, mainly to ensure that the GC rider gets all the help he needs. One guy will normally hang back in case the GC rider gets a puncture, like the poor guy who had to donate his back wheel to Froome a couple of days ago, and sacrifice his own chance of getting his best ever result. That's what he's paid for. Remember a few years ago when Froome was riding for Bradley Wiggins and had a chance of a stage win, but they called him back to drag BW along.

The more you watch the TdF, the more you understand it and the more interesting it gets. It's a real game of cat and mouse coupled with real strength and stamina as far as the GC riders are concerned

Dave...I watch the Tour and love watching it and as you say the tactics are fascinating,the more I watch it the more I understand.
But you never see a team attempt a breakaway early in a race....the power within the Sky Team if they as a team became the breakaway they would force all the other teams to chase them ,chase them all day....I agree that would be knackering but true racing,they appear to have a deal amongst the teams to maintain that status quo
What happens is the teams ride as a group,often quite leisurely,they deliver their GC rider together with all the other GC riders,who then race as a group in the last few kilometres,they are effectively a rolling advert train.
Froome has a very slim lead,yesterday if one of the teams attempted a breakaway and forced Sky to chase them that 23 secs would have looked vulnerable but the stage finished with all the GC rides as a group,that's why I say it's a stitch up....I bet any team that broke that deal would be blackballed in the hotel at the finish.
The Tour will be decided on the time trials not on the mountain stages.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

That is why I think the race is a stitch up,the major teams have an agreement to keep the GC riders together as a group.
One of my employees is an amateur racing rider,he thinks I am stupid suggesting that they should race each other,all day,they would be knackered,but that is the point isn't it?
KudosDave

There's no point in killing themselves at an intermediate point in a three week race, and it's not all about the yellow jersey. If it was the way you'd want it the Tour would have died out decades ago.

The appeal is in the complexity. There are various jerseys and points awards for differing achievements, from best climbing through best sprinter to best time triallist to best young rider, and everyone has a chance to make a breakaway and get moments or even a day of fame. It's all those diverse opportunities that attract the hundreds of entrants and the many sponsors.

Half dead Formula 1 could learn a lot from them. Just compare the hundreds of thousands of wildly enthusiastic spectators in various countries lining the Tour throughout, to the many F1 circuits devoid of any spectators around most of the length of the track.
.

 

[Nealh]

On Thursday I watched the Izoard stage fully captivated, first time I have sat down and watched a whole stage. When Landa broke away I soon realised that he was acting as a target for Froome if he needed one. As flecc points out it's a 3 week endurance /tour certainly no use peaking to soon. On this stage the average speed was an impressive 44km/h average over 100+ miles. To the viewer the spectacle and scenery/landscape is amazing.

 

[mike killay]

It is after all called the Tour of France, not race around France and I think that the point is for the riders to remain fresh until the end, not fall out half way around.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't know how they do it. 200km a day for 3 weeks. The teams always need to be mindful that they don't knacker themselves on any day so that the next day's performance is compromised. That's all part of the tactics to goad the other teams into doing exactly that; however, behind each team of riders is a team of scientists , who are monitoring them and advising them over the radio what they can and can't do.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Gentlemen,I respect all you say but yesterday's stage was a classic example,it's on the TV now....the Peleton finished like a Sunday afternoon ride,there was no attempt to race the yellow jersey even at the finish,I assume all the GC riders were given the same finish time so the stage was irrelevant to GC riders positions. It spoilt it that the GC riders didn't attempt to race at any time,I assume they all decided to retain their energy for today's time trial but that favours Froome.
I don't agree about F1 being dead,it is a success story around the world,Ecclestone has done a good job of making it a strong business,I don't like him but respect him.The finish of the British GP was very exciting and the battle between Lewis and Vetell has made it particularly interesting,the technology behind F1 is amazing,that half a second separates the top ten finishers.
The Tour I enjoy as much for the scenery as the bike riding,it has made me want to visit some of the regions featured,it is a wonderful advert for France tourism. But you can never consider the Tour as a spectator sport,I watched it when it came to the UK,the schools got the day off.....wait all day to watch 100 riders pass in 2 mins,leisurely chatting,that is not a spectator sport.....just an excuse to go out for the day,BBQ,get drunk,shout abuse at the riders,pass in 2 mins,back to the booze,hehe. But both F1 and the Tour are great to watch on the TV and the TV does a brilliant job of filming them.
KudosDave.

 

[flecc]

I don't agree about F1 being dead,it is a success story around the world

As I said, half dead. It's far from a success story round the world and even F1 itself has expressed concern. Just watch the circuits round much of the world and often only the stands are occupied, having the great and the good occupying them, many no doubt by invitation. The tracksides are devoid of any spectators at many circuits and at many others only having scattered numbers.

That's happened through chasing the money and building utterly boring new circuits where the money is, while taking F1 from interesting locations. Silverstone F1 as you say is successful, but it was threatened with losing the event in favour of the desert (and deserted) circuits, and even the wonderful Spa Francorchamps circuit threatened with losing F1. All because they weren't posh and elitist enough.

And the rules and restrictions in F1 have lost them huge numbers of followers as racing got ever more boring, predictable and unfair. You talk about fake racing, but what on earth is a boost in power to overtake someone who isn't allowed that? Thats a sham if ever there was one, and it's when I finally deserted F1 in despair.

Ecclestone and co. have been very good at chasing and getting money and attracting the snob element, but not in any way good for the good of F1 itself, which for so many has been ruined over time.
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[GLJoe]

But you can never consider the Tour as a spectator sport,

I'm afraid you really are taking a simplistic, day by day approach in analysing the tactics. It doesn't work that way.

Also, before you pass judgement on the tour as a spectator sport, you need to go out to FRANCE and experience the whole cavalcade / entourage that precedes the main racing, which is actually a small part of the experience time wise, and somehow I doubt they shipped all of that over for the small token UK stage.

 

[mike killay]

Some of the Tour tactics can be likened to top class snooker, where evenly matched opponents strive to force each other to make a mistake.
Brilliant safety shots leaving the ball balked, equally brilliant escape shots again leaving the ball in balk. You might complain that neither is actually trying to sink the ball.
Something similar can occur in dinghy racing with opponents using the rules to cause their opponents to make mistakes.

 

[Kudoscycles]

As I said, half dead. It's far from a success story round the world and even F1 itself has expressed concern. Just watch the circuits round much of the world and often only the stands are occupied, having the great and the good occupying them, many no doubt by invitation. The tracksides are devoid of any spectators at many circuits and at many others only having scattered numbers.

That's happened through chasing the money and building utterly boring new circuits where the money is, while taking F1 from interesting locations. Silverstone F1 as you say is successful, but it was threatened with losing the event in favour of the desert (and deserted) circuits, and even the wonderful Spa Francorchamps circuit threatened with losing F1. All because they weren't posh and elitist enough.

And the rules and restrictions in F1 have lost them huge numbers of followers as racing got ever more boring, predictable and unfair. You talk about fake racing, but what on earth is a boost in power to overtake someone who isn't allowed that? Thats a sham if ever there was one, and it's when I finally deserted F1 in despair.

Ecclestone and co. have been very good at chasing and getting money and attracting the snob element, but not in any way good for the good of F1 itself, which for so many has been ruined over time.
.

I do agree that chasing the money has taken F1 away from some wonderful circuits. We used to have a firm jolly to the Imola circuit,Italy. It was a fun weekend for the whole company. Sadly Ecclestone scrapped it for more money elsewhere and there is no substitute in Europe.
I have to admit some bias,the spin off from F1 is a very important part of my business.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

I have to admit some bias,the spin off from F1 is a very important part of my business.
KudosDave

I knew that Dave, hence my using it as a comparison with the Tour de France, knowing how well you knew and understood F1.

I don't just miss the old circuits, I dislike the excessive rules that have made the F1 cars all virtual clones, as you remarked within half a second of each other. So much the same that the artifice of power boosted overtakes were brought in to break up the monotonous processions.

It's all a far cry from when we could have surprise innovations like ground-effect and cars with six wheels. I think the Braun cars were the last time we saw an individual car innovation, and that soon got killed when they won.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

For the Tour you have to think of a mix of chess and football. The coaches are the chess masters placing their pawns as the situation evolves in real time. And it is a team sport, the top riders being the strikers all the others creating the situation for the final goal. There once was an American chap who could win without a team but he had great medical staff

Today there is GPS and coach to rider radio, back in the day all the tactics and instructions were transmitted by the support cars and motorbikes.

The Tour has a boss. To become boss you have to earn the respect of the other riders and be part of a team they fear. Sometimes the boss is decided on day one, other times in the mountains. Remember these riders race against each other all season so they know who is in peak form and who isn't.

 

[Retyred1]

To me, as a totally uninterested party living half a world away the tour seems to be full of corruption and bullying, but that's just my personal opinion and who am I to question?

 

[Mal69]

There once was an American chap who could win without a team but he had great medical staff
.

There was also an English chap, forget his name, took something for his pollen allergy and got a special 'therapeutic use exemption' this chap won many big events, became a Sir, the strange thing is he only had this pollen allergy when competing in big events, weird that!!

It's good to see they are now looking at banning corticosteroids, a certain big name woman tennis player also had this 'allergy' and took it, its about time exemptions ended when they are being legally allowed to get an advantage from taking a drug even if it helps their 'pollen' allergy.