Total cost of an ebike, around 45p a mile?

[Danidl]

No point comparing normal bicycles made 50 years ago to ones made in todays disposable economy.

You know probably the guy s who bought their black Rudges and Raleigh s in the 1940s , would have made the same comment about 1980s bikes...
... Again I disagree. There are very low cost bikes available in any supermarket, toyshop and even in Halfords, costing around 120 euro. Anyone who expects these to last is naïve. The pedels are hunks of plastic moulded over their axles and there is no rust protection on exposed steel except a bit of paint. .. these are good for a summer or two.
Next there are a range of ordinary bikes at about three to five times that price , where the metal has been passivated and the parts fit for purpose. Such bikes will last indefinitely, provided parts are replaced as needed.
Next there are specialty bikes either MTBs or sports bikes where the emphasis is on maximising some type of performance, either weight or strength for rough conditions. Price wise the sky is the limit, but the light weight ones are not strong or durable, and the strong ones are not lightweight.

The situation with ebikes is identical.... Except multiply all costings by 3.
The middle of the road product will be durable, repairable and give good service. The flashy high performance beast, will be optimised in some regard but durability will not be optimal

 

[Danidl]

how much would you pay for my 3 year old bike then ?

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Haibike-xDuro-AMT-PRO-2014

... I would not buy it. It is optimised for mountain trekking and will therefore not be as comfortable on the roads as a standard Dutch framed bike. See it's missing full mudguards. Stuff I would see as essential for touring
I am sure it's great fun in its intended location so enjoy!

 

[soundwave]

I would not buy it. It is optimised for mountain trekking and will therefore not be as comfortable on the roads as a standard Dutch framed bike. See it's missing full mudguards. Stuff I would see as essential for touring
I am sure it's great fun in its intended location so enjoy!

lol and i just bought a new saddle for it and has Elastomer suspension built in

 

[Woosh]

How long would you expect one of your bicycles to last? Cant say it fills me with much hope if the retailer himself says anything under 5k isn't going to last long.
To be fair the Sale Of Goods Act gives buyers some form of warranty for 6 years which the retailer is responsible for (not the manufacturer).
Sadly, not enough people exercise these rights. I think 6 years use out of a low cost Ebike is fair.

The mechanical bike will last probably a generation. There is no reason why it should last any less than bikes built a generation or two ago. The material is better, there are far more non-rust alloy and stainless parts on it than before. The crankset is GXP, it won't seize up like old BBs. The rims are double-wall, a lot tougher than rims of old days. The spokes are stainless steel.
The wearable parts are still the same: tyres, innertube, brake pads, hydraulic hoses, shocks, chain, freewheel, chainring but they are better made than before.
The bits that break are usually molded plastic or rubber parts. People stop using their old bikes for a number of reasons, often not because the old bike is no longer serviceable but because the new bikes are so much better and cheaper than the ones sitting in their shed.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I was absolutely convinced that cheap bikes could last a long time, but I went into four different retailers, and they all told me the same story that I had to spend £5000 if I want a bike that truly lasts, so I must have been wrong.

 

[Woosh]

they all told me the same story that I had to spend £5000 if I want a bike that truly lasts, so I must have been wrong.

there is some truth in it though. If you spend that much money, you wouldn't mind spending a little every year on maintenance.

Some bikes that come to my workshop are in truly poor state, caked in mud, with kinks in brake cables, brake pads worn to near metal, has never seen a drop of grease after a couple of years etc. and can still be put back to service for £50 worth of parts and labour.

 

[Danidl]

lol and i just bought a new saddle for it and has Elastomer suspension built in

Hi sw,
If my last posting came across as dismissive, I apologise, . Your ebike might even appreciate in value, similarly to some Porsche models, and for identical reasons.
Once one enters the field of hobbies and leisure activities normal rational economic cost benefit analysis becomes meaningless. Your bike cost a multiple of 3 on what I was willing to pay, and the current replacement a multiple of 4. , but then others might pay similar sums for a set of golf clubs, or a scuba set or a shotgun. Others might willingly pay multiples of that again on boats, caravans, racehorses
So enjoy!!

 

[Croxden]

I was absolutely convinced that cheap bikes could last a long time, but I went into four different retailers, and they all told me the same story that I had to spend £5000 if I want a bike that truly lasts, so I must have been wrong.

Thanks d8veh.

 

[SSentif]

Some of these comparisons don't seem fair as you are only including the cost of the e-bike, not the cost of the car too!

My ebike was £1K
I spend about £120 per annum on bike and accessories.
I would expect the battery to last 2 years before replacing.
Battery charge costs 4p
Travel per week is 40 miles.
Lets give the bike 4 years so £1K plus £480 costs plus £300 battery plus £30 battery charge costs. = £1810
Bike value after 4 years = £450 so costs = 1360
40 * 52 * 4 = 8320 miles
= 16p per mile plus lots of health benefits.

The mileage is based on what I do now - I have probably underestimated over the entire 4 year period as I will cycle more and more as I get more confident.

2nd hand car £5000
Tax £30
Insurance £380
patrol costs about 30p a mile
annual costs including MOT avg £300
4 year cost = £2840 annual plus car=£5K plus fuel =£2496 Total = £10336
Car value after 4 years = £1500 so costs £8836
= £1.06 per mile but no health benefits

Costs of the car and the depreciation is from real life experience!

 

[Woosh]

Bike value after 4 years = £450

I think you are over optimistic on the residual value of second hand bikes.
They tend to fall into two categories: low mileage and high mileage commuter bikes.
From the low mileage, I expect 30%-35% depreciation for one year olds, 50%-60% for 2 year olds.
From the high mileage bikes, the value depends very much on the sate of the bike but you probably see 50% depreciation after one just year.

 

[Volusia25]

Some of these comparisons don't seem fair as you are only including the cost of the e-bike, not the cost of the car too!

My ebike was £1K
I spend about £120 per annum on bike and accessories.
I would expect the battery to last 2 years before replacing.
Battery charge costs 4p
Travel per week is 40 miles.
Lets give the bike 4 years so £1K plus £480 costs plus £300 battery plus £30 battery charge costs. = £1810
Bike value after 4 years = £450 so costs = 1360
40 * 52 * 4 = 8320 miles
= 16p per mile plus lots of health benefits.

The mileage is based on what I do now - I have probably underestimated over the entire 4 year period as I will cycle more and more as I get more confident.

2nd hand car £5000
Tax £30
Insurance £380
patrol costs about 30p a mile
annual costs including MOT avg £300
4 year cost = £2840 annual plus car=£5K plus fuel =£2496 Total = £10336
Car value after 4 years = £1500 so costs £8836
= £1.06 per mile but no health benefits

Costs of the car and the depreciation is from real life experience!

You could buy a used car for £1500 or less and fuel cost about 20p a mile. Services you could do yourself. Oil and filter about £25-40 DIY, air filter £7 etc

 

[Woosh]

Services you could do yourself. Oil and filter about £25-40 DIY, air filter £7 etc

it is a lot easier to look after your bike than looking after your car.
However, the most basic task is to keep your tyres inflated to the correct pressure and a lot of people don't even check their tyre pressure.

 

[anotherkiwi]

My first bike came from an attic, I had to change the tyres and tubes before riding it, and yes... lubricate the chain. My second bike came from a skip, some of the better parts were moved to the first bike like the rear brake, derailleur and crankset.

I know the first one was over 8 years old and the second one probably over 5 years old, going by the model and parts mounted (thanks Decathlon for those clues...).

The first did 3600 km as an electric bike in just under a year and a bit more before that as a push bike. The second one is at about 2000 km (some km were done without a working speed sensor...) and needs a new headset the original may have have suffered a bit going by the shape of the handlebars when I got it...

So I guess I am to be classed in the d8veh "don't look a free bike in the mouth" category when it comes to the price of my pedelecs.

I have a spare all steel Rockrider 3.10 small frame and fork with the rear dropouts filed to fit a hub motor if any one needs one, 0 € to be collected.

 

[Woosh]

The situation with ebikes is identical.... Except multiply all costings by 3.
The middle of the road product will be durable, repairable and give good service. The flashy high performance beast, will be optimised in some regard but durability will not be optimal

it easy to agree with your view, Danidl.
There are few motor options for middle of the road bikes.
Here, the Bosch CX reigns supreme.
But if you look at cost per mile for these bikes, am I right to assume that most users trade up their bikes within 1000 to 2,000 miles? that will push the price per mile to around 50p-70p on average.

 

[Danidl]

it easy to agree with your view, Danidl.
There are few motor options for middle of the road bikes.
Here, the Bosch CX reigns supreme.
But if you look at cost per mile for these bikes, am I right to assume that most users trade up their bikes within 1000 to 2,000 miles? that will push the price per mile to around 50p-70p on average.

Using the term "middle of the road bike" was probably not my best choice. Such bikes are unlikely to last even a month
...well you being professionally associated with the bicycle trade will be more familiar with those statistics than would I a punter and dare I say have a vested interest. Just as there are a substantial fraction of the population who will religiously change their new car every 2 years , irrespective of wear, there are those who probably change their bikes equally often. Particularly those who are involved with cutting edge performance. My strategy both with bikes and cars is to buy new or close to new and keep till they drop.
What continues to astound me is the very low cost of quality parts for bikes .. Even in my local Halfords, I could see chains at 10 euro.. mind you you can equally pay up to 80. Tyres from 10 euro up... Just yesterday I went around local shops looking for nuts and bits for the 1983 Raliegh Caprice rear axle and they cost the magnificent sum of 4 euro..
There is no excuse for not being able to afford maintenance on a bike.

 

[Danidl]

You could buy a used car for £1500 or less and fuel cost about 20p a mile. Services you could do yourself. Oil and filter about £25-40 DIY, air filter £7 etc

.. and replacing clutches, tracking rods, brake cylinders .. these are the items which will be failing a 1500 car. These are not the types of repair and maintence an ordinary punter can do.
Again as with others ignoring parking charges, toll road charges which really affect running costs.

 

[RobF]

I'm currently on about £7.50 a mile with the Riese and Muller, although I hope to get that to under seven quid after the weekend.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Everyone has noticed the Bosch announcement of entry level priced mid motors coming soon?

 

[bateman]

I bought a new Haibike Trekking for £1,800 a year ago, and have had 5,000 miles of trouble free commuting so far.

Saved £540pa gym membership
Saved £1600pa train season ticket
Bought a three year biannual service plan for £100pa

So even in the first year, there have been modest savings and its much more pleasant and reliable than getting the train. Fingers crossed I should start to see significant savings in the coming years and a low cost/mile.

 

[Solarbake]

My bosch spedelec khalkoff BS10 done 14000 miles now and is 31/2 years old.
I had loads of tyres probably on my 5th set now,replace the chain every 1200-1500 miles,
It cost £2100'new but it's quite cheap ownership really plus i'd never be as fit if i didn't buy it.
My commute is 42 miles round trip. Each way the 21miles takes under an hour quickest has been 53 minutes.
The car it takes 40-45 minutes so not much in it really.
Biggest expense has been battery for £280 but i knew they don't last forever.Its been 100% reliable
on the electrics the only breakdown i had was mechanical and happened recently when the pawls in the crank freewheel stuck down and i lost all drive.
But a quick open up of the motor and cleanup and regrease sorted it,so hopefully ok for another 10k
A replacement would probably be a dongled yamaha or similar when it eventually fails .