I'd use the frame as a heatsink, mounting the diode on an insulating washer on the flat plate above the key switch that the battery slide is attached to with shrink tube over the connections. If you were really keen you could then make a cover to go over the whole thing and a few blobs of silicone sealant would prevent the wires vibrating and fatiguing the connections and keep water out.
Torq with battery mod storms up hills
- Thread starter Tiberius
- Start date
Ian
Thanks - I like the idea of where to mount it, but I am a little confused about using the frame as a heatsink, whilst at the same time mounting the diode on an insulating washer.
Doesn't the insulating washer tend to defeat the object of the heatsink, or have I got the wrong end of the stick ?
Certainly the pins on the leggy style of diode would need support to be reliable in the longterm.
Looking at the offerings from RS, I noticed this robust looking diode here.
Thinking that I could pot this into a block after fitting the cables with eyes, and mount it direct to the plate above the on/off switch.
I would still use Anderson 30A Powerpole connectors down at the bottom bracket and to the cable from the saddlebag, sealed as much as possible.
Looking for a reliable 2000 miles or so !!
What do you both think about the larger diode for a robust installation ?
Thanks
James
Hi James,
There are special mica washers that don't offer too much thermal resistance. or you can have the heatsink live and insulate that, which is what I did. 20 w is not that difficult to lose, but it will overheat if you don't do something.
That bolt down diode is OTT, so is the price. But the Anderson connectors are what I used. I solder rather than crimp them.
Nick
There are special mica washers that don't offer too much thermal resistance. or you can have the heatsink live and insulate that, which is what I did. 20 w is not that difficult to lose, but it will overheat if you don't do something.
That bolt down diode is OTT, so is the price. But the Anderson connectors are what I used. I solder rather than crimp them.
Nick
This would be a suitable insulating washer James, Maplin part number CH03D, most modern insulators tend to be made from a rubber compound which is more robust than the the mica type.
On the Ezee bikes that have a dynamo style headlamp powered from the main battery there is a brass strip in the headlamp earthing one side of the supply to the frame (a thowback to the headlamp's dynamo origins). It is as well to remove this and then the frame will be electrically dead, reducing the possibility of a short.
Ian
Thanks for your advice that I used in fitting a second battery on the Torq.
The Maplin insulating washer is the perfect fit behind the RS 651-8692 (thank you Nick) diode to electrically insulate the diode from the frame.
Regarding the earthing of the lights to the frame (January 2007 Torq) which is unneccesary when the lights are powered from the main battery:
Exactly as you described, the headlamp required the brass strip to the main pivot bolt to be cut.
The standard Torq rear light also ties the -ve to the frame through one of the M6 mounting bolts. The simple solution here was to replace the offending M6 metal bolt with an equivalent nylon bolt - still leaves one metal bolt for security.
James
Ressurecting a very old thread here I know... 
Due to my dodgy knees I'm currently running my bike on 90% pure throttle. (mostly flat but some inclines at the end)
Which means that at the end of my 4 mile journey home, I'm starting to get the low battery light flashing under heavy load. (and my commute is due to grow to 6 miles each way in May).
So I'm thinking either:
a) Go for the Ping replacement (16AH) sooner rather than later...
b) Or for approx £40 (single set of 30AAs) try Nick's parallel battery trick, in order to a) eeek out some more life out of the current battery b) help preserve the life of the Ping when I eventually replace the current one.
A few people have tried this mod, how well does it work? What's the opinion of the gathered experts?
Cheers
Steve
Due to my dodgy knees I'm currently running my bike on 90% pure throttle. (mostly flat but some inclines at the end)
Which means that at the end of my 4 mile journey home, I'm starting to get the low battery light flashing under heavy load. (and my commute is due to grow to 6 miles each way in May).
So I'm thinking either:
a) Go for the Ping replacement (16AH) sooner rather than later...
b) Or for approx £40 (single set of 30AAs) try Nick's parallel battery trick, in order to a) eeek out some more life out of the current battery b) help preserve the life of the Ping when I eventually replace the current one.
A few people have tried this mod, how well does it work? What's the opinion of the gathered experts?
Cheers
Steve
The parallel battery trick does work Steve, but it can be inconvenient from a charging point of view. Maybe you could organise the extra pack as switched so you could switch it in only when needed. I don't know how long this would prolong the battery's life though, since it's clearly on the way out.
On my Torq conversion to my T bike I enlarged the NiMh battery case and added three extra cells to make it 39.6 Volts so it could be charged in one, but that's not practical with a li-ion battery of course if that's what you've got.
.
On my Torq conversion to my T bike I enlarged the NiMh battery case and added three extra cells to make it 39.6 Volts so it could be charged in one, but that's not practical with a li-ion battery of course if that's what you've got.
.
Yes, the charging is the issue.
Naturally I have a LiIon charger, but as these are pretty dumb I'd need to build a NiMH charger to charge the booster pack which I'd charge separately, unless I can find a nice cheap 36V NiMH charger...
I had thought of switching in say 2-3 NiMH connected in serial, but that doesn't really unload the main LiIon which is what we're trying to achieve.
What I can add to this is that I have a 24v 16ah Ping for my ebike bought last August and have completed just over 1000 miles with it. No drop in performance apart from really cold days (-5 or colder). It then drops about 20% capacity in the extreme cold.
As an aside I have two 48v 20ah Ping batteries in parallel in my escooter and can achieve nearly 60 miles on one charge in non-freezing conditions and about 48 miles in sub zero conditions. Pings batteries have great support from him. I would happily recommend his batteries to anyone.
As an aside I have two 48v 20ah Ping batteries in parallel in my escooter and can achieve nearly 60 miles on one charge in non-freezing conditions and about 48 miles in sub zero conditions. Pings batteries have great support from him. I would happily recommend his batteries to anyone.
Last edited:
Thanks for that Citrus, it's always good to read some concrete experiences...
I'm especially encouraged by the escooter performance as, because I'm on the throttle all the time, that's basically what I have a slow scooter. Your figures seem to amount to about 1AH [at 36V] per mile, which is the figure I'm tending to for my Wisper...(I'll be doing some more measurements next week, checking the WHrs that go into the charger, last night's was 130WH for the 3.9 miles).
Lichen
I should mention that w have not used Lichen for many months, since we changed to the more efficient and lighter Lithium Polymer Li(NiMnCo)O2 battery,
All the best David
Hi John, thanks for your comments.
I should mention that w have not used Lichen for many months, since we changed to the more efficient and lighter Lithium Polymer Li(NiMnCo)O2 battery,
All the best David
chief eZee Operator
I am not taking on any particular points on this thread. But I would just briefly like to summarise what I know of the situation.
1) There was indeed problem with some of the Li+ Phylion batteries supplied in 2007.
2) Although Phylion have identified and fixed the problem, it is difficult to return to these prismatic batteries that weighs 1.4 kgs more than the current Li+polymer we have been using since.
3) Our current Li+ polymer is the LiMnCo complex. And also with the state of the art BMS with microprocessor that balance the cells all the time instead of only during charging.
4) We have been using our own new generation motor instead of BaFang on the Torq models from 2008.
5) There are various grades of Li+ polymer the supplier could provide each with a built in characteristics to serve a purpose, but very often in life it is give and take. Li+ Battery that could provide high amps output would end up with lower capacity and vice versa. We have to pick one type that is the one with higher capacity, given it is able to give max. output of more than 20 amps is sufficient for e-bike application.
6) When a load is drawn on a battery the voltage drops, larger drop for larger load, and so this becomes a challenge when climbing. If the voltage drops below the protected low voltage level to prevent deep discharge the controller cuts power. Very naturally a large battery works better than a small one.
7) Battery life. The new GM volt has decided on using LG Li+polymer. But note that the battery is working on only 50 % of the capacity, they are made to work between 30% to 80 % of their DOD to extend the battery life. Some years back we tested the LG Li+polymer and we got less than 50 cycles to 60% of DOD, I suppose they have improved as well.
We could not afford to do it this way, we are practically using 99 %
8) I wish to inform all that on all the eZee model it is very easy to add another set of battery in parallel. There are many advantages as noted in the threads earlier. It would definitely extend battery life as the 2 batteries share the work load, with 1/2 the amps drawn and less likely to be fully discharged. We have 3 options to hold the extra battery packs. a) on specially designed battery pannier 2) Rear carrier luggage bag that could also hold ample other things alongside. 3) double decker rear carrier with a flat battery pack ( new ) with lock.
9) We do have LiFePO4 battery available now with the specially designed rear carrier. However it is 37V 8Ah instead of 10Ah. LiFePO4 has lower energy density both gravimetrically and volumetrically. The price is only 30% higher than the Li+polymer, lathough with 20 % lower capacity, but at least double the expected life span. This will go with 2 years warranty for 70 % DOD. This battery has the Cathode material from Phostech. Naturally this could also be used as the 2nd parallel battery set up. This is also an option battery type for the conversion kits that we are marketing.
Best regards
W W Ching
I am not taking on any particular points on this thread. But I would just briefly like to summarise what I know of the situation.
1) There was indeed problem with some of the Li+ Phylion batteries supplied in 2007.
2) Although Phylion have identified and fixed the problem, it is difficult to return to these prismatic batteries that weighs 1.4 kgs more than the current Li+polymer we have been using since.
3) Our current Li+ polymer is the LiMnCo complex. And also with the state of the art BMS with microprocessor that balance the cells all the time instead of only during charging.
4) We have been using our own new generation motor instead of BaFang on the Torq models from 2008.
5) There are various grades of Li+ polymer the supplier could provide each with a built in characteristics to serve a purpose, but very often in life it is give and take. Li+ Battery that could provide high amps output would end up with lower capacity and vice versa. We have to pick one type that is the one with higher capacity, given it is able to give max. output of more than 20 amps is sufficient for e-bike application.
6) When a load is drawn on a battery the voltage drops, larger drop for larger load, and so this becomes a challenge when climbing. If the voltage drops below the protected low voltage level to prevent deep discharge the controller cuts power. Very naturally a large battery works better than a small one.
7) Battery life. The new GM volt has decided on using LG Li+polymer. But note that the battery is working on only 50 % of the capacity, they are made to work between 30% to 80 % of their DOD to extend the battery life. Some years back we tested the LG Li+polymer and we got less than 50 cycles to 60% of DOD, I suppose they have improved as well.
We could not afford to do it this way, we are practically using 99 %
8) I wish to inform all that on all the eZee model it is very easy to add another set of battery in parallel. There are many advantages as noted in the threads earlier. It would definitely extend battery life as the 2 batteries share the work load, with 1/2 the amps drawn and less likely to be fully discharged. We have 3 options to hold the extra battery packs. a) on specially designed battery pannier 2) Rear carrier luggage bag that could also hold ample other things alongside. 3) double decker rear carrier with a flat battery pack ( new ) with lock.
9) We do have LiFePO4 battery available now with the specially designed rear carrier. However it is 37V 8Ah instead of 10Ah. LiFePO4 has lower energy density both gravimetrically and volumetrically. The price is only 30% higher than the Li+polymer, lathough with 20 % lower capacity, but at least double the expected life span. This will go with 2 years warranty for 70 % DOD. This battery has the Cathode material from Phostech. Naturally this could also be used as the 2nd parallel battery set up. This is also an option battery type for the conversion kits that we are marketing.
Best regards
W W Ching
Wai Wong that is exciting news. I believe that makes you the first e-bike manufacturer to offer LiFePO4 doesn't it?
Sun Bicycles were introduced here last year with LiFePO4 batteries, the agents Hilderthorpe Cycles. They were quite low powered bikes though, using the Tongxin Nano motor and small capacity handlebar mounted batteries.Wai Wong that is exciting news. I believe that makes you the first e-bike manufacturer to offer LiFePO4 doesn't it?
The eZee ones will be the first high capacity ones when they arrive here.
.
So let me get this correct. To adequately have my 2007 Torq working reliably for a practical time period, I need to purchase TWO batteries at around £400 each! And wire them in parallel.
It's little wonder I'm becoming a little sceptical about how really practical E-Bikes are
Charlie.
It's little wonder I'm becoming a little sceptical about how really practical E-Bikes are
Charlie.
They are practical, they are probably not economical.So let me get this correct. To adequately have my 2007 Torq working reliably for a practical time period, I need to purchase TWO batteries at around £400 each! And wire them in parallel.
It's little wonder I'm becoming a little sceptical about how really practical E-Bikes are
Charlie.
A moped is far more practical for many, and can be cheaper overall as well, both to buy and run.It's little wonder I'm becoming a little sceptical about how really practical E-Bikes are
Charlie.
Power assisted bikes have always been most suited to those who like cycling for whatever reason, and of course those who have lost their driving licences.
.
They do have other advantages (as pointed out elsewhere by numerous people including yourself Tony):
* Park "anywhere".
* No tax, insurance, registration needed.
* You can nearly always pedal them when the battery runs out.
* Bike parts are mostly cheap, mostly interchangeable, and there's a massive choice.
* Easy to maintain for most people with a little mechanical knowledge. In fact many of us learnt the basics as children.
* Most e-bikes can be carried & lifted.
* Ability to carry small children, pull trailers etc etc
I could go on, but this is all somewhat off topic....
Of course, but we could pick out every tiny detail difference in advantages/disadvantages. I stick with what I've said above though, most find a moped the better option, the numbers on the road showing that.
Some points regarding your observations worth bearing in mind. E-bikes aren't easily maintained by most owners, since the the electrical side is problematic for most. There's far more knowledge of IC engines out there. Mopeds have the motorcycle trade available all over the country for repairs and spares, e-bike national support for the most part is minimal to non-existent.
Mopeds can pull trailers too, though not widely appreciated motorcycle trailers are perfectly legal. In fact the main scooter companies have marketed custom matching trailers.
Non-cyclists would not appreciate the "ability" to pedal an e-bike as an advantage when the battery runs out, and with many types, cyclists don't relish the prospect either. I think most of the public would prefer the moped reliability and relative freedom from punctures.
.
Some points regarding your observations worth bearing in mind. E-bikes aren't easily maintained by most owners, since the the electrical side is problematic for most. There's far more knowledge of IC engines out there. Mopeds have the motorcycle trade available all over the country for repairs and spares, e-bike national support for the most part is minimal to non-existent.
Mopeds can pull trailers too, though not widely appreciated motorcycle trailers are perfectly legal. In fact the main scooter companies have marketed custom matching trailers.
Non-cyclists would not appreciate the "ability" to pedal an e-bike as an advantage when the battery runs out, and with many types, cyclists don't relish the prospect either. I think most of the public would prefer the moped reliability and relative freedom from punctures.
.
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