Torq Spokes

[Tiberius]

Ok, flecc, I agree on the gauge, etc, but I want to make sure that the threads are right for the existing nipples. Is M2.5 standard on 2 mm spokes? Then I guess maybe M2 on 1.8 mm ones. I take it that 13/14/15 gauge is 2.3/2.0/1.8 mm dia.

Nick

 

[Django]

A need for rebuild is most unlikely Paul. It's not unusual for the odd spoke to go on a hub motor wheel early in life. Production demands lead to the odd tensioning error, but it's seldom serious. Out of all the hundreds of Torq 1's sold, I know of just two which had a problem needing a wheel rebuild by 50cycles. Others have had an odd spoke and then nothing else. And of course, with mass production spokes, there's always a chance of the odd spoke being faulty.

The motors stress a wheel a bit more, but the suspension forks on your will help avoid breakages.
.

Make that three. My spokes started to go in the front wheel after 8 months or so with the bike. 50cycles didn't respond to my requests for help so I took it to my excellent local bike shop who rebuilt the whole wheel. It is now fine.

Cheers,

Django

 

[Ian]

Ok, flecc, I agree on the gauge, etc, but I want to make sure that the threads are right for the existing nipples. Is M2.5 standard on 2 mm spokes? Then I guess maybe M2 on 1.8 mm ones. I take it that 13/14/15 gauge is 2.3/2.0/1.8 mm dia.

Nick

14G spokes do require smaller nipples than the 13G spokes fitted as standard. At first glance they look the same and will screw on, but there is insufficient thread engagement which will strip when tightened.

2mm nipples are correct for 14G spokes.

With the correct nipples 14G spokes make perfectly suitable replacements, my rebuilt Sprint has done many miles with its rebuilt wheel.

Spoke thread diameter is measured in a slightly unconventional way, the measurement being that of the spoke before the thread is formed rather than the actual thread diameter. Spoke threads are always formed by rolling resulting in an actual diameter larger than the quoted size. Spoke threads are never cut with a die as this would severely weaken the hard drawn wire, dies are available for cleaning up damaged threads though.

 

[flecc]

Exactly as Ian has said in all respects. I always buy the spokes and nipples together, and SJS supply that way so no problems.

Django, thanks for the info, I'd guessed I wouldn't have known of all cases, since these things seem to run in batches. The build on those motor wheels that I've seen have sometimes had spokes too slack for my liking.
.

 

[Tiberius]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the info. I assumed the threads were rolled rather than cut. I was just trying to pin down what were the norms or standards. Two things seemed strange to me (coming from other fields of engineering). The mixture of wire gauges and metric threads on the same component, and a M2.5 thread being called 2 mm.

So when bike people say 2mm thread, they mean the material was 2 mm OD before the thread was rolled - the thread is actually M2.5. I guess that would mean a 15 gauge would be 1.8 mm and would be rolled to create a M2 thread?

Did you say the standard spokes are 13 g?

Nick


Nick

 

[Ian]

Did you say the standard spokes are 13 g?

Nick


Nick

Yes, the standard Spokes spokes are 13G in common with many other ebike wheels.

I think in actual fact they are metric substitutes as the actual diameter is 2.25mm rather than the exact 13swg equivalent of 2.34mm. Likewise with the British made 14G spokes from SJS which measure exactly 2mm rather than the 2.03mm of an exact equivalent.

 

[Tiberius]

Thanks Ian,

I've got the spoke measurements and I'll talk to SJS - just realised they aren't too far away from me.

Now lets do something simple, like threads on British cars in the late 1950s....

Nick

 

[Tiberius]

..... the exact 13swg equivalent of 2.34mm. Likewise with the British made 14G spokes from SJS which measure exactly 2mm rather than the 2.03mm of an exact equivalent.

I measured mine as 2.18 mm, which is almost exactly half way between those values of 2.03 and 2.34. I am starting to think it is fiendishly devised to confuse me.

Nick

 

[Ian]

Many years ago when I cycled to work during my first few weeks as an engineering apprentice I had the idea of replacing the well worn wheel nuts on my bike with new ones from the huge selection in bins along one wall of the factory. It was at that point I discovered that standardisation didn't mean that much. In those pre-metric days we had a huge selection of BSW, BSF, UNC, UNF and specials, but no cycle threads .

 

[flecc]

In those pre-metric days we had a huge selection of BSW, BSF, UNC, UNF and specials, but no cycle threads .

Well remembered from my motor trade days. Every mechanic took great care not to mislay any nuts or bolts during stripping down anything, a legacy that still pervades my working now.

I measured mine as 2.18 mm, which is almost exactly half way between those values of 2.03 and 2.34. I am starting to think it is fiendishly devised to confuse me.

Nick

The cycle trade is hidebound with tradition, nothing really getting replaced with the modern, just a hotch potch of incorporation. The use of gear inches for example, the method used for the penny-farthing and still in use despite it being hopelessly unsuitable now.
.

 

[Ian]

The cycle trade is hidebound with tradition, nothing really getting replaced with the modern, just a hotch potch of incorporation.

170mm cranks with 9/16" threads spring to mind! Along with wheel sizes that are measured exclusively in inches apart from the 700mm size.

And then there are chains with their half inch pitch, 1" & 1 1/8" steerers and 1" stems as examples of purely imperial measurments, although to remain politically correct their metric equivalents should really be quoted.

 

[Tiberius]

.... huge selection of BSW, BSF, UNC, UNF and specials, but no cycle threads .

BA, BSP, NPT. Ah, bliss. And no machine would ever use only one type.

Kids today don't know they're born. My son actually said "I'm glad I didn't live in the dark ages, Dad." I think that was after asking me what all those spanners were for.

Nick

 

[Ian]

Unbelievably I've just had cause to cut a 1/4" BSW thread, for a camera tripod adaptor. I think I used my last 1/4 BSW screw about 30 years ago so had to make my own. The really sad thing is that while I can't remember where the tools I used yesterday are, I knew exactly where my only 1/4" BSW die was.

 

[flecc]

Unbelievably I've just had cause to cut a 1/4" BSW thread, for a camera tripod adaptor. I think I used my last 1/4 BSW screw about 30 years ago so had to make my own. The really sad thing is that while I can't remember where the tools I used yesterday are, I knew exactly where my only 1/4" BSW die was.

Similar problem when I made an adapter for mounting tele and wide angle lens adapters on a compact camera. Needing a substitute tripod mount, I had to search high and low for a 1/4" BSW nut to turn into a mounting boss. A nut on an old coachbolt came to the rescue.
.

 

[JamesC]

Thanks everyone for another very informative thread on the Torq wheel. I share many of the same memories of sorting threads in my early engineering days (factory machinery and cars), but managed to get through life until now with minimal work on bicycles.

Nick
I can't see wire gauge in my Metric Revision 1974 Zeus !! When did Zeus start providing engineering data ?

I will be interested to hear your progress in going over to more widely available 14g spokes and a wheel rebuild. Having had a couple of spokes break, I have wanted to have a shot at rebuilding the wheel as my next project.

James

 

[flecc]

I will be interested to hear your progress in going over to more widely available 14g spokes and a wheel rebuild. Having had a couple of spokes break, I have wanted to have a shot at rebuilding the wheel as my next project.

James

Pending Ian's reply, I rebuilt a Lafree Twist rear wheel when it was only weeks old in swapping to an SRAM P5 gearhub, and used standard 14 gauge spokes.

I went on to use it for the next four years for heavy load carrying and towing duties doing 6000 miles without any trouble. That bike was bought by aaannndddyyy, a forum member, who rode and railed it back to Norfolk several months ago where he still uses it.
.

 

[Ian]

I will be interested to hear your progress in going over to more widely available 14g spokes and a wheel rebuild. Having had a couple of spokes break, I have wanted to have a shot at rebuilding the wheel as my next project.

James

I've found rebuilding wheels not to be overly difficult, I use patience as a substitute for skill in that particular field. Getting the correct length spokes is obviously critical and was complicated by my replacement rim having a less deep section necessitating some careful calculations.

Sheldon Brown gives good advice, possibly all you need to know, even including a link to a musical method of spoke tensioning which is how I did it.

 

[stokepa31]

Hi All

Sorry for the very beleated reply, I have been having some IT problems followed by a holiday.

I had to wait a bit to get the spokes as I ordered them during the great 50 cycles fire. once I got them, I pondered for a while, purchased the Haynes manual, podered a bit more, went on holiday and finally tonight got round to doing the job.

A total of three spokes needed replacing - two on the outside , and one on the inside where the disk brake is .

I firstly removed the mud guard which also means the light assembley has to come off too but this was easy.

Then off came the tyre and tube (wheel still in place). Next I removed the disk brake which also went well. Then I tried to remove the disk itself to allow access to the inside spoke hole. This is where it all went pete tong!! first screw came out ok but the second one just melted under the pressure of the hex key. ok so now i have to bend the spoke a lot more than I would have liked to get it through.

They are all in and tensioned so tomorrow morning I will find out if my handy work stands up to the commute.

for info, it took an hour although I would hope this will be less next time

Fingers Crossed!!

 

[flecc]

It will probably be ok. On occasions I've bent spokes quite a lot to fit them in emergency situations, but they've always survived afterwards. Two lots of fingers crossed.
.

 

[stokepa31]

I give up

30 yards into the commute another two spokes go ping. Ive had enough of this so it will be back to 50c for a solution.


Paul