Too many to choose from? lol

[ebikenewb]

Alright, where to start....
I've been looking at ebikes for a week now looking through thread after thread lol.
Making it easier I have a £800 budget and not looking to go over it at all.
I've almost set myself on the sirocco cd, as I am able to derestrict it, via lcd as I have read here on pedelec. But im not sure how this crank drive works and how these gears may be a problem for me, ive read that id have to press the breaks when changing gears to protect the motor? Anyone here with a sirocco cd able to give me some advice? I was looking at the sirocco 2 but would it be possible to derestrict it as it doesnt have the LCD options? I am aware about the legalities of derestricting it but I ride through some pretty empty long straight roads and would like that extra speeds.
Also if you have any other bikes which I can choose from please name them? Maybe cyclotricity bikes? Anyone have experience with them?
Thanks

 

[ebikenewb]

By the way id be doing about 25 miles 5 days a week. Usually flat kind of roads but through the city of london, start stopping regularly.
Id like to use throttle only on some journeys also, so id like a bike with the most range, say 50/60/70 with pedaling aswel of course

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Pressing the brakes for changing gear on Woosh CD is a complete waste of time unless they've changed something since I tried one. The delay before power comes back is too high.

Changing gear is no problem, Just ride it like a normal bike. After a while, you'll figure out which gear you can climb each hill in, then you'll select that gear before you start to climb. The only time you get a bit of a crunch is when you're pedalling hard up a steep hill and you have to change down quickly while pedalling. You'll soon figure out what to do, so you don't need to worry about anything.

 

[ebikenewb]

No it just says on their website under the Sirocco CDL version, directly copied:
"Power delivery is very gradual on the Sirocco-CD.
However, this power is transmitted through chain and gears, you should squeeze the brake handles slightly to cut out the motor momentarily when changing gears to protect the derailleur."

also, anyone had any real range on this bike? how much range would you be looking at throttle only?

 

[trex]

I wouldn't pay much attention to squeezing the brakes before changing gear. I have never heard of anyone who's wrecked the derailleur on crank drives.
You only has to slow down a second to reduce the load on the chain, change gear then rev up again. Slowing down avoids the noise from the chain while it's stepping up to a larger cog, the same thing you would do with a normal bike. Changing to a smaller cog does not make as much noise. Also, the 8-speed derailleur is slicker than the 7-speed, it should make less noise when changing gear.

 

[ebikenewb]

ive been on this forum for about 3 hours now....omg...the choices are endless. I have now added the burisch 250gt (mainly because of its looks) and the vita uno 26? why must there be so many choices?

 

[trex]

sellers have to enlarge their range because the technology improves quite quickly, there are quite a lot of 2013 models with Bosch Classic motor, then this year, makers upgraded their models to Bosch Active and Bosch Performance. The European market has more than 2000 models on sale.
You have about 15 advertisers on this forum, each may stock several brands or have their own range, about 15 bikes for each brand. You end up with the pedelecs database containing about 600 models to choose from. This is a little mad when John Sargeant went on TV tonight saying sales in the UK is 20,000 for the year. Even if sales are 30000, it does not make much mathematical sense.
Bikes sold for under £1,000 are mainly utilitarians, competing on battery, gears, shocks and tyres. Bikes sold for £1500 and above compete on style. I think conversion is the way to go if your budget is in between, you get the style you want and value for money. For example, you can get quite decent German bikes like a Cube Aim SL29 for £430 and fit a decent kit like the Woosh Big Bear kit (£550) or this Lapierre cross 300 for £580 and Woosh CD kit (£630), both with 15AH bottle battery, at the top end, there is this £1050 Cube AMS Pro 110, fit it with a £600 rear wheel Big Bear 48V kit and you end up with the best of both worlds.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/cube-aim-pro-29-hardtail-bike-2014/rp-prod114093
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/lapierre/cross-300-2014-hybrid-bike-ec054585
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/cube-ams-pro-110-suspension-bike-2013/rp-prod111969

 

[ebikenewb]

Hmm...I understand, however it is my first ebike and I dont think that I would be spending anything more than 800, 820 at most for the burisch but not any higher. I like cycling no doubt, but I wouldnt spend hard earned cash splashing out on a bicycle tbh and I have never spent more than 200-300 on a bike, so you can see that already 800 is pushing it for my budget

 

[ebikenewb]

I mean no doubt the cube looks stunning, I'm just not used to spending so much on a bike so I dont think id go ott so soon

 

[trex]

if you are not overweighed, the Sirocco 2 with 15AH battery is the best choice for commuting in London. It costs £699 and has puncture resist tyres and is far less likely to get nicked.

 

[ebikenewb]

I weigh 75kg

 

[trex]

That's pretty much perfect. The Sirocco 2 does not have LCD, to go faster than 15mph, you should consider changing the chainring to 48T or 52T to boost assisted pedalling.

 

[ebikenewb]

Am I able to derestrict it via lcd? As mentioned, I have about 4 milee of empty road where cycling is permitted and its literally straight, would like to hit speeds there, higher than the 15mph set

 

[ebikenewb]

Aha...I wouldn't like changing the spec on the bike tbh, even though I can and am able to do some maintenance etc. Id like to ride the bike how it comes. Also does anyone know if you can claim VAT on these ebikes? Im an employer and was wondering if its possible

 

[trex]

if you are an employer, you can buy the bikes as plant and machinery then loan them free to your employees. You recover VAT and write them off at usual 25% depreciation per annum. If you want to recover NI and tax, then lookup cycle to work or ask Hatti at Woosh how it works.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

No it just says on their website under the Sirocco CDL version, directly copied:
"Power delivery is very gradual on the Sirocco-CD.
However, this power is transmitted through chain and gears, you should squeeze the brake handles slightly to cut out the motor momentarily when changing gears to protect the derailleur."

also, anyone had any real range on this bike? how much range would you be looking at throttle only?

As I said, I wouldn't take to much notice of that.

These bikes are not designed for throttle only. You'd get about 15 miles, but you would die of boredom before you got that far. It would be very slow. You need a motor of at least 500w if you don't want to pedal.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Bikes sold for under £1,000 are mainly utilitarians, competing on battery, gears, shocks and tyres.Bikes sold for £1500 and above compete on style.

omg Trex.... you say some very sensible things and then you say something like this and undo all your good work, this shows a lack of understanding of the subject you're trying to advise on.

I know many people who work for brands who sell for less than £1500, and an equal number who sell for more than £1500.00.

a) they all complete on style, are you saying people with under £1500.00 have no consideration for the looks of what they are buying?

and

b) components / performance / range / frame quality / weight / price / availability / reliability / support etc etc are things brands that all brands are competing on, regardless of the price point they are selling at.

Just because you get over a price point, doesn't mean these considerations go out of the window.

Col

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Also does anyone know if you can claim VAT on these ebikes? Im an employer and was wondering if its possible

Are you VAT registered? If so just buy the bike(s) as company stock. That way you can claim the VAT back in the normal way. As its something you're company needs. Just tell you're accountant you're "sponsoring yourself" put some company stickers on the bike and then it also becomes marketing expenses and comes off your profits.

Then at some point in the future, just get the company to sell it to yourself or someone else for £10.00 so you don't end up with any VAT liability.

easy.

 

[trex]

omg Trex.... you say some very sensible things and then you say something like this and undo all your good work, this shows a lack of understanding of the subject you're trying to advise on.

I know many people who work for brands who sell for less than £1500, and an equal number who sell for more than £1500.00.

a) they all complete on style, are you saying people with under £1500.00 have no consideration for the looks of what they are buying?

and

b) components / performance / range / frame quality / weight / price / availability / reliability / support etc etc are things brands that all brands are competing on, regardless of the price point they are selling at.

Just because you get over a price point, doesn't mean these considerations go out of the window.

Col

that's a bit over simplified. Bikes under £1000 are mainly sold on internet by companies like Woosh which list ad-nauseam little technical details so they can compete with one another on the net. Their proposition is value for money.
Bikes over £1500 are mainly shop bought and carry well known brands, mostly with Bosch motors. You know and I know Bosch only do business with the best companies, those with proper design skills and organisational structure, mostly belonging to Derby, Accell or CycleEurope, few independent vendors like KTM are taken on. RobF pointed out very well that their catalogs are full of life style pictures. So tell me, what is their proposition if not style?


kudosdave has pointed out a couple of days ago:

...
To summarise,customers know what they want from these bikes. I don't think they care much how that is achieved,they want a bike that they like the look of and at a price that seems fair,the rest they trust to a caring and honest dealer.
KudosDave

From the customers' perpective, I quote from EddiePJ in the same thread:

...
Finally it can even come down to colour choice. The blue on the Cube is rank, the orange and black of the KTM is superb.
...

It's clear that among shop bought bikes for £1500 and above, within a frame type and price band, style is where the money is. The interesting bit that you did not (want to) mention is what's best for people with a budget between £1000 and £1500? At present, bikes between £1000 and £1500 are Chinese made with components that are still very much below European best. I want to suggest that with this budget, you should go for a quality conversion. Start with a European made normal bike in the style you want then add the best Chinese electrics. Newbies who would like this idea but are afraid that they can't do the conversion themselves, Hatti at Woosh told me that she can get the kit fitted for you by a mobile mechanic for around £80.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

your first mistake is to suggest that all £1500.00+ bikes come with Bosch... so the first area that brands in this price point compete on is the drive system. Bosch is one of the options, but only one, and its by no means the best system for everyone.

Just like in the sub £1000.00 category there are lots of brands that use the same motors.

The interesting bit that you did not (want to) mention is what's best for people with a budget between £1000 and £1500? At present, bikes between £1000 and £1500 are Chinese made with components that are still very much below European best. I want to suggest that with this budget, you should go for a quality conversion. Start with a European made normal bike in the style you want then add the best Chinese electrics. Most newbies who would like this idea but are afraid that they can't do the conversion themselves, Hatti at Woosh told me that she can get the kit fitted for you by a mobile mechanic for around £80.

I didn't mention it because it wasn't relevant, and I'd never be arrogant enough to suggest any one product, or kit / bike would be best at any price point. Its about an individuals needs / wants / priorities. You can't say at any point that one option is best, because it might be for you, but its not for everyone.