Help! Tongsheng tsdz2 sound problem diagnose

[Flipoidix]

Hello all,

After 110km my new ( 1 month ) tsdz2 motor started making a noise even without being turned on.

Tongsheng Tsdz2 sound problem

Can you help diagnose the problem please! :)

youtube.com

Does anyone had this kind of noise before?
Any help would be appreciated.

thank you very much!
Regards,
Filipe

 

[Nealh]

Sounds pretty much normal to me, some of them are quiet and some or a bit noisier.
The QC isn't the best so depends where and which factory is was made in.
If you search places like the german and ES forum one will find varying posts of some motors being nosiy out of the box.

 

[Flipoidix]

Sounds pretty much normal to me, some of them are quiet and some or a bit noisier.
The QC isn't the best so depends where and which factory is was made in.
If you search places like the german and ES forum one will find varying posts of some motors being nosiy out of the box.

Thank you for your reply, the thing is , it was much quieter before.
It 'feels' a bit rough while spining the pedals by hand, like some bearing or something

 

[Bikes4two]

Apologies for asking this, but have you tried spinning the cranks with the chain removed?

Noises in aluminium frames travel and so by removing the chain, you can be more certain that any untoward noise is definitely coming from the motor assembly.

 

[Flipoidix]

Apologies for asking this, but have you tried spinning the cranks with the chain removed?

Noises in aluminium frames travel and so by removing the chain, you can be more certain that any untoward noise is definitely coming from the motor assembly.

Hi, thank you for your reply, Yes, the noise is the same

Tongsheng Tsdz2 noise ( no power, no chain )

youtube.com

 

[Bikes4two]

Hi, thank you for your reply, Yes, the noise is the same

Tongsheng Tsdz2 noise ( no power, no chain )

youtube.com

• OK, try this - lift off the chain and with the motor powered off, rotate the pedals/cranks both forward and backward.
• Do you get the noise in both directions of crank rotation or just in one direction?
• If in just one direction, which direction is it?

There are two clutches in the motor, one in the (in)famous blue gear and another in what is called the sprag clutch.

There's an interesting animation of the TSDZ2 on youtube here - if the noise only occurs in one direction of rotation then one of the two clutches is the issue. If the noise is in both directions, then one of the main bearings is causing it. (search youtube for 'sprag clutch animation' to see how they work).

Changing the blue gear is easy, the sprag clutch not so easy but doable for someone handy with tools.

Make a video of the test as if nothing else, it's be a good thing to show the seller if you go for a refund.

Let use know how you get on.

Cheers, AlanM

 

[Flipoidix]

thank you very much for your reply,

If I rotate backwards it does not make any noise, only when I rotate forward, and it makes noise even without power nor chain. According to the video you sent It might be this gear. Is it controlled by the blue gear bearing ?

• OK, try this - lift off the chain and with the motor powered off, rotate the pedals/cranks both forward and backward.
• Do you get the noise in both directions of crank rotation or just in one direction?
• If in just one direction, which direction is it?

There are two clutches in the motor, one in the (in)famous blue gear and another in what is called the sprag clutch.

There's an interesting animation of the TSDZ2 on youtube here - if the noise only occurs in one direction of rotation then one of the two clutches is the issue. If the noise is in both directions, then one of the main bearings is causing it. (search youtube for 'sprag clutch animation' to see how they work).

Changing the blue gear is easy, the sprag clutch not so easy but doable for someone handy with tools.

Make a video of the test as if nothing else, it's be a good thing to show the seller if you go for a refund.

Let use know how you get on.

Cheers, AlanM

 

[Woosh]

Hi, thank you for your reply, Yes, the noise is the same

Tongsheng Tsdz2 noise ( no power, no chain )

youtube.com

it seems to me that your blue gear is damaged.

 

[Bikes4two]

• Thats an interesting observation by @Woosh who as a retailer of these motors has much experience with them.
• My thoughts are that the noise is coming from one of the two clutches ('sprag' or 'blue gear') when the clutch is disengaged
• I'm looking back at the animation I linked to and this is my take on the two clutches:
  - when pedalling in the foward direction, the sprag clutch is engaged which turns the main gear wheel and the pinion gear whilst the blue gear clutch is disengaged
  - if you pedal backwards, the sprag clutch is disengaged (but no noise) and thus the main gear will not rotate, nor will the pinion gear and nor will the blue gear shaft
• So my logic takes me to concluding the same as @Woosh that the blue gear assembly is the issue.
• The blue gear is cheap to buy and not difficult to replace but you'll have to break the seal on the motor case to gain access.
• Thus if you want to preserve your warranty, you should contact the supplier about this issue - they may send you a replacement blue gear for you to fit but this means they are giving you implicit permission to open the motor.
• If preserving warranty is not a concern, order up a blue gear, watch Youtube, and go for it.
• Please let us know what course of action you take and the resolution.

 

[Flipoidix]

• Thats an interesting observation by @Woosh who as a retailer of these motors has much experience with them.
• My thoughts are that the noise is coming from one of the two clutches ('sprag' or 'blue gear') when the clutch is disengaged
• I'm looking back at the animation I linked to and this is my take on the two clutches:
  - when pedalling in the foward direction, the sprag clutch is engaged which turns the main gear wheel and the pinion gear whilst the blue gear clutch is disengaged
  - if you pedal backwards, the sprag clutch is disengaged (but no noise) and thus the main gear will not rotate, nor will the pinion gear and nor will the blue gear shaft
• So my logic takes me to concluding the same as @Woosh that the blue gear assembly is the issue.
• The blue gear is cheap to buy and not difficult to replace but you'll have to break the seal on the motor case to gain access.
• Thus if you want to preserve your warranty, you should contact the supplier about this issue - they may send you a replacement blue gear for you to fit but this means they are giving you implicit permission to open the motor.
• If preserving warranty is not a concern, order up a blue gear, watch Youtube, and go for it.
• Please let us know what course of action you take and the resolution.

I contacted the supplier and they told me to open the motor and tighten some screws so, warranty seal was already broken with permission from the supplier.

I will contact again asking for a replacement blue gear.

thank you for your time, i will get back to this post as soon as I have it tried out.

it seems to me that your blue gear is damaged.

Thank you for your feedback, I will try to replace it.

 

[Bikes4two]

So what were the screws suggested might need tightening and were they loose anyway?

 

[Flipoidix]

So what were the screws suggested might need tightening and were they loose anyway?

They sent me this:



But they were tightened and did nothing

 

[Nealh]

What teh seller is actually saying is they haven't a clue and just clutching at straws.

 

[Flipoidix]

What teh seller is actually saying is they haven't a clue and just clutching at straws.

they asked me to remove the blue gear and check for noise, I will try to do that as soon as I can

 

[Bikes4two]

You probably know this already - to access the blue gear, it is those 6 screws are what hold the motor in place.

After removing the coloured wires and 6 screws, the motor can be pulled out but may require tapping with a Mallet to loosen it.

Search YouTube 'tsdz2 disassembly' where the vid by 'Okfeet ebike' shows this clearly.

 

[Flipoidix]

You probably know this already - to access the blue gear, it is those 6 screws are what hold the motor in place.

After removing the coloured wires and 6 screws, the motor can be pulled out but may require tapping with a Mallet to loosen it.

Search YouTube 'tsdz2 disassembly' where the vid by 'Okfeet ebike' shows this clearly.

Thanks! I will check that!

 

[Flipoidix]

Ok so I opened and checked with the blue gear :

Tongsheng Tsdz2 noise - with blue gear

youtube.com

without the blue gear:

Tongsheng Tsdz2 noise - without blue gear

youtube.com

and the noise is the same.

Can anyone tell me if this slack is normal?

Tongsheng Tsdz2 noise - slack normal?

youtube.com

since the noise is only present on the forward movement it might be the main gear or the bearing pointed in red

You probably know this already - to access the blue gear, it is those 6 screws are what hold the motor in place.

After removing the coloured wires and 6 screws, the motor can be pulled out but may require tapping with a Mallet to loosen it.

Search YouTube 'tsdz2 disassembly' where the vid by 'Okfeet ebike' shows this clearly.

it seems to me that your blue gear is damaged.

 

[Bikes4two]

• I love your approach to diagnostics - a person after my own heart - brilliant
• Anyway, the blue gear slack - hmmm, it does seem wobbly, but TBH, I can't truly remember if mine was like that or not - maybe someone like @Woosh has more direct experience.
• Having stripped down that far, if it were me I'd next remove the main gear wheel with the sprag clutch in it. This would leave you with just the axle left in place to which you could attach a pedal arm and repeat the test.
• And of course you'll have the gear wheel/sprag clutch to check on how that all looks/feels
• This youtube vid here is the one I followed when I changed my sprag clutch and is good on showing how to remove the main gear wheel - again a straight forward procedure if you have a few basic tools.
• PSW Power sell a new gear wheel complete with sprag clutch installed if needed.

PS - I changed my sprag clutch as I had the symptoms shown in the video - however, it turned out to be my freehub in the back wheel - mind you, I had done a good few 10s of thousands of miles on it! The plus side is I gained the confidence and experience in doing the sprag clutch job - that's what I like about these motors: just about everything is accessible/replaceable.

 

[Woosh]

they asked me to remove the blue gear and check for noise, I will try to do that as soon as I can

Ok so I opened and checked with the blue gear :

Tongsheng Tsdz2 noise - with blue gear

youtube.com

without the blue gear:

Tongsheng Tsdz2 noise - without blue gear

youtube.com

and the noise is the same.

you have demonstrated that the noise comes from the main gear, not the blue gear.
You will have to remove the main gear, check for damage, regrease and re-assemble.
There are a number of ballbearings, one of them is possibly damaged by water ingress.

 

[Bikes4two]

Hi @Flipoidix - any update on resolving the noisy motor?