Review Tong Sheng TSDZ2 Owner Survey

[Nealh]

The new firmware is anti OSF apparently and isn't programmable with current OSF releases, some of the 2021/22 tsdz2's have new different controllers then other tsdz2.
Aikema (Suzhou) is the parent company of TSE (Suzhou), one won't find the tsdz2 on any of two companies pages.

 

[Jajo]

I'm using 48V 500W version on hardtail and lastly moved that to full suspension. 2000 km so far. I'm very pleased with what I've got for the price 300$.
Have stripped blue gear, but it was my stupid fault. I've replaced sprug clutch also, becouse after 1,5 kkm bearings plastic cover cracked and was a little loose and I had to much spare time I ride mostly forest trails on tour and speed modes. Don't use OSF or any termal mods etc. I found them unnecesary complication and I like how it works from factory. Lastly I've removed torque sensor just to see how it looks, so I'm expecting to problems in next 500 km.
We will see how long it lasts, but I love that kit so much that I simply buy another if it will fail.

 

[TJS109]

The new firmware is anti OSF apparently and isn't programmable with current OSF releases, some of the 2021/22 tsdz2's have new different controllers then other tsdz2.
Aikema (Suzhou) is the parent company of TSE (Suzhou), one won't find the tsdz2 on any of two companies pages.

There is firmware that is supposed to work with the new controller but it is unfinished and experimental.

GitHub - OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_motor_controller_v2

Contribute to OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_motor_controller_v2 development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Looking at the dates on the project there does not seem to have been much activity for a while so it may well be dormant.
I read that it uses a different micro and needs a different programming approach, not sure about it being deliberately anti OSF though.

 

[Nealh]

Casainho took up the mantle as she originally started the v1 osf, the reason no more work has been done is she stopped all tsdz osf . Instead focused on the KT osf to work better with DD hubs and bespoke designed mini lcd displays , she simply found the tsdz to unreliable.
In the future someone may rekindle it if v2 controllers become the norm but so much work goes in to the writing of the software and endless testing, not sure the usual suspects will keep doing so.

 

[TJS109]

My own experience has been mixed. I have two motors both running the OSF software. On one the torque sensor has failed and I am running it in cadence mode. The other has been trouble free. I have had both a few years but relatively low millage.
The performance in cadence and torque sensing modes has been fine for my purposes.

 

[Bikes4two]

My own experience has been mixed. I have two motors both running the OSF software. On one the torque sensor has failed and I am running it in cadence mode. The other has been trouble free. I have had both a few years but relatively low millage.
The performance in cadence and torque sensing modes has been fine for my purposes.

Thanks for the reply - much appreciated.

May I ask what the symptoms were for the torque sensor failure and did you replace/fix/resolve the issue?

 

[Bikes4two]

.. ..... she simply found the tsdz to unreliable.....

Thanks for that info.

Do you know what aspect of the tsdz2/project was unreliable? Was it the hardware or software side?

I think it'd be useful to many to put some perspective around term 'tsdz2 unreliable' - many thanks.

 

[Nealh]

Thanks for that info.

Do you know what aspect of the tsdz2/project was unreliable? Was it the hardware or software side?

I think it'd be useful to many to put some perspective around term 'tsdz2 unreliable' - many thanks.

Not software as she is/was one of the main protagonists on ES with the programming, it was the build quality of the drive. RHS main drive shaft shearing and I think the TS failing, the usage for her terrain wasn't suitable so the DD hub and KT osf with homemade BT screen was a better option.

 

[TJS109]

Thanks for the reply - much appreciated.

May I ask what the symptoms were for the torque sensor failure and did you replace/fix/resolve the issue?

I was running the OSF software.
The motor simply refused to run and displayed an error message which related to "torque sensor error"
I then changed the operating mode for the software to cadence mode which ignores the torque sensor and used it like this.
It works fine in this mode and I can't face the hassle of trying to change the sensor.

 

[Bikes4two]

Hi @TJS109 - an interesting experience - changing modes with my VLCD6 display is either difficult or not possible and having had an entirely satisfactory outcome with my OSF set to use Power Assist Mode, I've never tried the other modes.

Do you know how Power Assist Mode works as in how does the controller know about your human input power if isn't also using the torque sensor?

Having suspected the torque sensor being the issue, did you try re-flashing the firmware in case it was a software issue rather than the torque sensor itself? (and looking through youtube, I can see why you'd not want to rush to change the torque sensor and it is not a cheap item at around £70).



I note from the OSF manual that there appears to be a way to check if the torque sensor is output a signal - did you lend any thought to trying the procedure (below) out?

 

[TJS109]

Hi,
I did try reprogramming with the original software and it gave the sensor error.
I find that trying to use the display for anything other than basic data is impossible so I re-flashed it with the software configured for cadence mode. I had not tried to calibrate the torque sensor so did not investigate any further than above.

 

[Bikes4two]

Hi,
I did try reprogramming with the original software and it gave the sensor error.

This is probably not something you'd be inclined to do given that you're content with Cadence Assist mode, but I'll keep it in mind for my own diagnosis should I get a trorque sensor problem and it is this:
> in this article HERE there's a brief few words on the 4 modes - of particular interest is the Power Assist Mode which the article says uses a combination of Torque and Cadence
> So to help determine if the torque sensor actually does need replacing (rather than a firmware issue) I'd see what happens on both the Power Assist mode and Torque Assist mode

 

[Hangman]

Apologies to those who may have read this survey on the Cycling UK forum but as there's no response so far (03May22), I'm posting here as I'm sure there will be greater interest.
.....

I love this little Tongsheng motor and much prefer it to the Bafang BBS02 I had previously. The Bafang felt very unresponsive being cadence only and I had to keep upping and downing the power level all the time or use the throttle.
I've now done about 3000km on my Tongsheng running the Mbrusa OSF for original displays. I have the 48V 750W version with the VLCD6 mini display and no throttle or brake sensors.
I have twice re-greased the main gears with general multi-purpose grease. This stops a whirring sound when it becomes a bit dry. Once the torque sensor connector plug came loose and I got a sensor error. It was a simple repair by tweaking the pins a bit and re-connecting. Very occasionally the motor continues to run by itself (ghost pedaling). Apparently this can also happen with the stock firmware, so it's not the OSF. When this first happened I panicked and forced it to stop with the brakes. This blew the controller! A new replacement was about £40. Brake sensors would have stopped it and saved the controller. Switching off the display works but takes a few seconds. Restarting, and the motor runs fine again. I've had this happen three times, it's not good, but not such a big deal. They now offer the 8 pin connector with the small VLCD6 display so I'd highly recommend this and fit the brake sensors!
My motor is mounted on a full-suss Yeti ASR frame with a small 48V 12Ah battery giving about 60km range. I ride almost exclusively off-road. My 11/40T cassette with the standard 42T chainring gives excellent gearing for fast and slow riding.
The TSDZ2 worked well straight out of the box but I loaded the OSF as the stock firmware limits the power to 90rpm cadence. This is ok but sometimes it's good to spin a bit faster, to power up ramps for instance.
I'm quite light (about 65kg) and usually ride in tour mode (level 2, approx 6 amps) using the gears. I occasionally use more power for steep hills at speed and rarely use full power.
I have my OSF set default to eMTB mode which is perfect for me. I've tried the other modes but none have the same excellent feel I get with the eMTB mode. My controller is labelled 15A max but the motor only demands 12A at full power in this mode. Doing the maths this is just under 600W. This is plenty enough for me! I prefer the feel on the pedals at level 2 (out of 4) and use the gears. I can climb almost any gradient that's not so steep to make the front wheel rise up. I rarely use the biggest cog (40T) unless I want to go very slow.
My motor never gets hot, only warm to touch after a high power climb. I guess people who have problems with overheating must be thrashing the life out of this little motor or they are much heavier than me and use full power all the time.
I find the motor easy to dismantle and all parts are available and cheap. Bearings are standard and easily replaced. That said I haven't needed any yet.
I guess most people publish problems on these forums and rarely post with a good report. But for me the Tongsheng TSDZ2 really is a brilliant little motor and worth every penny of it's purchase price.
Finally I must say thanks to all those who worked on the OS firmware, it's very clever and has some great features.

 

[TJS109]

I love this little Tongsheng motor and much prefer it to the Bafang BBS02 I had previously. The Bafang felt very unresponsive being cadence only and I had to keep upping and downing the power level all the time or use the throttle.
I've now done about 3000km on my Tongsheng running the Mbrusa OSF for original displays. I have the 48V 750W version with the VLCD6 mini display and no throttle or brake sensors.
I have twice re-greased the main gears with general multi-purpose grease. This stops a whirring sound when it becomes a bit dry. Once the torque sensor connector plug came loose and I got a sensor error. It was a simple repair by tweaking the pins a bit and re-connecting. Very occasionally the motor continues to run by itself (ghost pedaling). Apparently this can also happen with the stock firmware, so it's not the OSF. When this first happened I panicked and forced it to stop with the brakes. This blew the controller! A new replacement was about £40. Brake sensors would have stopped it and saved the controller. Switching off the display works but takes a few seconds. Restarting, and the motor runs fine again. I've had this happen three times, it's not good, but not such a big deal. They now offer the 8 pin connector with the small VLCD6 display so I'd highly recommend this and fit the brake sensors!
My motor is mounted on a full-suss Yeti ASR frame with a small 48V 12Ah battery giving about 60km range. I ride almost exclusively off-road. My 11/40T cassette with the standard 42T chainring gives excellent gearing for fast and slow riding.
The TSDZ2 worked well straight out of the box but I loaded the OSF as the stock firmware limits the power to 90rpm cadence. This is ok but sometimes it's good to spin a bit faster, to power up ramps for instance.
I'm quite light (about 65kg) and usually ride in tour mode (level 2, approx 6 amps) using the gears. I occasionally use more power for steep hills at speed and rarely use full power.
I have my OSF set default to eMTB mode which is perfect for me. I've tried the other modes but none have the same excellent feel I get with the eMTB mode. My controller is labelled 15A max but the motor only demands 12A at full power in this mode. Doing the maths this is just under 600W. This is plenty enough for me! I prefer the feel on the pedals at level 2 (out of 4) and use the gears. I can climb almost any gradient that's not so steep to make the front wheel rise up. I rarely use the biggest cog (40T) unless I want to go very slow.
My motor never gets hot, only warm to touch after a high power climb. I guess people who have problems with overheating must be thrashing the life out of this little motor or they are much heavier than me and use full power all the time.
I find the motor easy to dismantle and all parts are available and cheap. Bearings are standard and easily replaced. That said I haven't needed any yet.
I guess most people publish problems on these forums and rarely post with a good report. But for me the Tongsheng TSDZ2 really is a brilliant little motor and worth every penny of it's purchase price.
Finally I must say thanks to all those who worked on the OS firmware, it's very clever and has some great features.

I love this little Tongsheng motor and much prefer it to the Bafang BBS02 I had previously. The Bafang felt very unresponsive being cadence only and I had to keep upping and downing the power level all the time or use the throttle.
I've now done about 3000km on my Tongsheng running the Mbrusa OSF for original displays. I have the 48V 750W version with the VLCD6 mini display and no throttle or brake sensors.
I have twice re-greased the main gears with general multi-purpose grease. This stops a whirring sound when it becomes a bit dry. Once the torque sensor connector plug came loose and I got a sensor error. It was a simple repair by tweaking the pins a bit and re-connecting. Very occasionally the motor continues to run by itself (ghost pedaling). Apparently this can also happen with the stock firmware, so it's not the OSF. When this first happened I panicked and forced it to stop with the brakes. This blew the controller! A new replacement was about £40. Brake sensors would have stopped it and saved the controller. Switching off the display works but takes a few seconds. Restarting, and the motor runs fine again. I've had this happen three times, it's not good, but not such a big deal. They now offer the 8 pin connector with the small VLCD6 display so I'd highly recommend this and fit the brake sensors!
My motor is mounted on a full-suss Yeti ASR frame with a small 48V 12Ah battery giving about 60km range. I ride almost exclusively off-road. My 11/40T cassette with the standard 42T chainring gives excellent gearing for fast and slow riding.
The TSDZ2 worked well straight out of the box but I loaded the OSF as the stock firmware limits the power to 90rpm cadence. This is ok but sometimes it's good to spin a bit faster, to power up ramps for instance.
I'm quite light (about 65kg) and usually ride in tour mode (level 2, approx 6 amps) using the gears. I occasionally use more power for steep hills at speed and rarely use full power.
I have my OSF set default to eMTB mode which is perfect for me. I've tried the other modes but none have the same excellent feel I get with the eMTB mode. My controller is labelled 15A max but the motor only demands 12A at full power in this mode. Doing the maths this is just under 600W. This is plenty enough for me! I prefer the feel on the pedals at level 2 (out of 4) and use the gears. I can climb almost any gradient that's not so steep to make the front wheel rise up. I rarely use the biggest cog (40T) unless I want to go very slow.
My motor never gets hot, only warm to touch after a high power climb. I guess people who have problems with overheating must be thrashing the life out of this little motor or they are much heavier than me and use full power all the time.
I find the motor easy to dismantle and all parts are available and cheap. Bearings are standard and easily replaced. That said I haven't needed any yet.
I guess most people publish problems on these forums and rarely post with a good report. But for me the Tongsheng TSDZ2 really is a brilliant little motor and worth every penny of it's purchase price.
Finally I must say thanks to all those who worked on the OS firmware, it's very clever and has some great features.

Saw your comment about the lose plug perhaps I will take the cover off and have a look at the connections

 

[Bikes4two]

@Hangman - thanks for taking the time to post of your experiences with the TSDZ2

Very occasionally the motor continues to run by itself (ghost pedaling). Apparently this can also happen with the stock firmware, so it's not the OSF. When this first happened I panicked and forced it to stop with the brakes. This blew the controller! A new replacement was about £40.

That's an interesting observation about blowing the controller etc. I'll need to bear that in mind when next the phantom pedalling presents itself. Ideally if you spot it whilst on the move then a power off/on is better done whilst still coasting, but one might no always be that lucky. Like you, I don't have the ebrakes but I can reach my bottle battery on/off switch without too much delay.

 

[vidtek]

Strange I've never experienced this "Ghost pedalling" in 2 years and 2500 miles. Still on stock firmware though....I'd rather be out on my bike riding than stuffing around with the settings when I get some spare time. Retirement is so time consuming......

 

[guerney]

Strange I've never experienced this "Ghost pedalling" in 2 years and 2500 miles. Still on stock firmware though....I'd rather be out on my bike riding than stuffing around with the settings when I get some spare time. Retirement is so time consuming......

It might be more likely if one has many angry dead relatives and friends with unresolved issues in the material world? I've never experienced ghost pedalling with my bbs01b, but have experienced "Grass pedalling" while pushing my bike through long grass - a pedal got turned and all of a sudden I was fighting a bike doing a wheelie. Therefore now I switch the bike off before I push it through uncyclable long grass...

 

[Kevin williams]

I have had my original tsdz2 motor for approx 2yrs + and it has been brilliant, I have done 13000+ miles in that time with the only issue being a blue gear failure at 9000 miles after I was peddling really hard and had to slam on the brakes so basically my fault, I have never done any maintenance whatsoever and it just works , no problems, I only ride it on road and forest trails, it's a planet X fat baz 29er and I changed the front chainring to a 50 t, otherwise it's all stock, no OSF, I have a 19.2 ah 36v battery which is good for 85 miles in level 2(tour) and 55 in level 3(sport),I am 6'3" and 210 lbs, I have also bought 2 more kits but they are the newer tsdz2b units, one for myself and one for my wife and both have been perfect with no issues at all, both these are 48v 500w models and use 12ah 48v batteries, range is also great on these particularly in my wife's case being a lot lighter she can get almost 70 miles on sport mode and 100 miles on tour which is impressive considering I only paid £170 for the battery, I've also built 2 more for friends which have also worked flawlessly for over a year so all in all they have been fantastic and an absolute bargain!

 

[Bogmonster666]

Well, I've only done 500 miles on mine so far. It is a bit noisy in some scenarios and I have a spare blue gear to try, but have not had time to do it and won't before I go on holiday.

If I can get 13000 miles I'll be totally chuffed. To be honest, I reckoned if I got 5000 miles I'd be happy. That's probably a couple of years cycling for me. I don't mind replacing the odd bearing if I need to.

I suspect that eventually it will be water that will get mine...I am not just a fair weather cyclist.

I am only interested in a mid drive TS motor and I'm tight fisted so I'm fishing in a small pond.

I'm going to have to report back in a year. I'm moderately confident I'll get a couple of years use out of it with a bit of fettling. And if not, it didn't brake the bank.

I agree that the crank arms appear to need tightening more than I've experienced in other bikes, I just put a Jimmy bar on the Allen key...although I'm sure my neighbour will have a torque wrench I can use.

 

[Kevin williams]

Well, I've only done 500 miles on mine so far. It is a bit noisy in some scenarios and I have a spare blue gear to try, but have not had time to do it and won't before I go on holiday.

If I can get 13000 miles I'll be totally chuffed. To be honest, I reckoned if I got 5000 miles I'd be happy. That's probably a couple of years cycling for me. I don't mind replacing the odd bearing if I need to.

I suspect that eventually it will be water that will get mine...I am not just a fair weather cyclist.

I am only interested in a mid drive TS motor and I'm tight fisted so I'm fishing in a small pond.

I'm going to have to report back in a year. I'm moderately confident I'll get a couple of years use out of it with a bit of fettling. And if not, it didn't brake the bank.

I agree that the crank arms appear to need tightening more than I've experienced in other bikes, I just put a Jimmy bar on the Allen key...although I'm sure my neighbour will have a torque wrench I can use.

Should dobthatveasily

Well, I've only done 500 miles on mine so far. It is a bit noisy in some scenarios and I have a spare blue gear to try, but have not had time to do it and won't before I go on holiday.

If I can get 13000 miles I'll be totally chuffed. To be honest, I reckoned if I got 5000 miles I'd be happy. That's probably a couple of years cycling for me. I don't mind replacing the odd bearing if I need to.

I suspect that eventually it will be water that will get mine...I am not just a fair weather cyclist.

I am only interested in a mid drive TS motor and I'm tight fisted so I'm fishing in a small pond.

I'm going to have to report back in a year. I'm moderately confident I'll get a couple of years use out of it with a bit of fettling. And if not, it didn't brake the bank.

I agree that the crank arms appear to need tightening more than I've experienced in other bikes, I just put a Jimmy bar on the Allen key...although I'm sure my neighbour will have a torque wrench I can use.

Should do that easily , mine is still going strong, it's given no indication that it won't continue to do so, as for water problems, I've used it in a all weather, torrential rain doesn't seem to bother it , I wash it weekly as well and it's all good