Tonaro Esprit update

[gorach]

hey Lynda I am glad you are enjoying your new bike, as I do mine (a bighit). I have to say that I like high speed stuff too but can get nothing like 15mph on motor alone, and thats with the magnet removed. Do you notice a big tail -off in speed from freshly charged(at 42v) to low charge(at 36v)? I'm about 14.5 stone so mebe that accounts for the speed discrepancy.

 

[funkylyn]

hey Lynda I am glad you are enjoying your new bike, as I do mine (a bighit). I have to say that I like high speed stuff too but can get nothing like 15mph on motor alone, and thats with the magnet removed. Do you notice a big tail -off in speed from freshly charged(at 42v) to low charge(at 36v)? I'm about 14.5 stone so mebe that accounts for the speed discrepancy.

Thanks Gorach,

Great bikes arent they ?

I have never ridden the bike on throttle alone, I always pedal so cant help there.
So far I havent noticed any big tail off of power but that could be because its not just on throttle......
certainly weight has an effect along with the terrain you are cycling on.
In fact today was the first time I have used the throttle at all as I was in heavy traffic and its certainly very helpful for a smooth take off up an incline or in traffic.
I am doing a mixture of power settings at the moment to see what the range is.
However, in normal use if not going further than 20 miles or so, on say a traffic free route, I would be tempted to remove the sensor and have that extra assisted speed, as cycling normally at over 15mph, I find the cut off irritating.....even though its gentle

I had intended running the battery out totally today, but it was so warm I decided to go home and have a drink instead

Lynda

 

[Blew it]

I am doing a mixture of power settings at the moment to see what the range is.

Lynda,

The three position switch does not control the amount of 'power' available. This was my understanding at first, but this proved to be wrong (kindly confirmed by NRG).

The three position switch controls the road speed to which the motor assists, something like:

Position one, assistance dies away at around 14 mph.
Position two, assists to around 17 mph.
Position three, approximately 18 mph.

The amount of torque, or pulling power, is exactly the same in all three positions. This is the way the system was designed to work, but as long as the wheel magnet is in place to satisfy our regulations, you will never get to experience how smoothly the assistance works in the way originally intended.

The controller measures the time-lapse between magnet passes of the sensor. When the time lapsed is equal 15 mph, the inhibitor circuit (also used by the brake switches) is activated. This is why the assistance ceases so abruptly.

The only occasion when the full potential of the Tonaro is realised, is when that magnet comes loose and moves away from the sensor (wheel magnets are well known for coming loose)

The motor assistance has a 'soft start', this is sometimes mistaken for a delay after using the brakes, or when pedalling off from a standstill. This will also be noticed after using the throttle.

Delighted to hear you're pleased with the machine.
Regards
Bob

 

[mike killay]

My Enduro, on the flat, no wind, will go up to about 18 mph. These pesky magnets are so badly fitted that mine fell off (honest) and it is extremely difficult to get another. I enquired at Tescos, the local papershop and the chemists, none of them sell them!
I found that I did not like the pedelec, particularly when changing gear, so I loosened the sensor, swung it up a bit and retightened it. Now I ride throttle only and find it much nicer.
However, I am taking the bike to Belgium next month and will probably find the long flat plain around Ypres better ridden with the pedelec in operation.

 

[flecc]

These pesky magnets are so badly fitted that mine fell off (honest) and it is extremely difficult to get another. I enquired at Tescos, the local papershop and the chemists, none of them sell them!

How about a fishing tackle shop, I'm sure I've heard fishing types talk about baiting with magnets.

 

[funkylyn]

Lynda,

The three position switch does not control the amount of 'power' available. This was my understanding at first, but this proved to be wrong (kindly confirmed by NRG).

The three position switch controls the road speed to which the motor assists, something like:

Position one, assistance dies away at around 14 mph.
Position two, assists to around 17 mph.
Position three, approximately 18 mph.

The amount of torque, or pulling power, is exactly the same in all three positions. This is the way the system was designed to work, but as long as the wheel magnet is in place to satisfy our regulations, you will never get to experience how smoothly the assistance works in the way originally intended.

The controller measures the time-lapse between magnet passes of the sensor. When the time lapsed is equal 15 mph, the inhibitor circuit (also used by the brake switches) is activated. This is why the assistance ceases so abruptly.

The only occasion when the full potential of the Tonaro is realised, is when that magnet comes loose and moves away from the sensor (wheel magnets are well known for coming loose)

The motor assistance has a 'soft start', this is sometimes mistaken for a delay after using the brakes, or when pedalling off from a standstill. This will also be noticed after using the throttle.

Delighted to hear you're pleased with the machine.
Regards
Bob

Hi Bob,

According to Tonaro, when pedalling, the low position gives 60% extra assistance, the medium 80% and high gives 100%......
so do you mean when just using the throttle and with the sensor off ?

Yes, you are right about the sensor ( what sensor ? ) as soon as I have established range with it on............it will be OFF

I think I would rather carry an extra battery when on a longer run .......cos that de restricted power is addictive LOL

I love the hub gears.........

I will be interested to see the range on mixed settings, I think on my windsor I was getting a good range ( around 25miles ) considering the smaller and older battery and if the range is similar on this bike ( hope its better ) I will wonder whether the extra weight of the Tonaro....4 kilos more, is making the difference ?

Lynda

 

[iant30]

Thanks again Lynda for your suggestion. I was all set to head down to Dundee but on checking found you were correct re the Dundee agent being out of Tonaros Apparently this is to be the case until the beginning of December when it seems the new range/stock for 2012 comes out Does any one know what is planned? I asked about a brochure for the new range but none available at the moment.
By the way a probably most naive question-does adjusting the position of the sensor or removing the magnet have any implications for the warranty of a new bike? Can it do any damage anyway irrespective of what it may mean in terms of the warranty?
Regards
Ian

 

[funkylyn]

Thanks again Lynda for your suggestion. I was all set to head down to Dundee but on checking found you were correct re the Dundee agent being out of Tonaros Apparently this is to be the case until the beginning of December when it seems the new range/stock for 2012 comes out Does any one know what is planned? I asked about a brochure for the new range but none available at the moment.
By the way a probably most naive question-does adjusting the position of the sensor or removing the magnet have any implications for the warranty of a new bike? Can it do any damage anyway irrespective of what it may mean in terms of the warranty?
Regards
Ian

Ian......this IS the new range......and his supplies came through Powerpedals as the UK importer......as you know....they ARE in stock now at Powerpedals.
Removing the sensor will not affect your warranty.

Lynda

 

[iant30]

Hi Lynda
Interesting!... I did not realise the position
Thanks for clarifying
Regards
Ian

 

[steveindenmark]

I removed the magnet on Jannies Compy as we were having a problem. I contacted Phil and informed him and he informed Tonaro who said removing the magnet would not do any damage.

Steve

 

[DK2]

I've got an Enduro from the new range, and theres at very distingtive difference in powerassist up hill between the threes levels. Level 1 - I've got to do most of the work, level 2 - some help - level 3 - you sail up the hills.

As for full rage - havent had the chance to test it yet, but as I ride pedealassist only so far, I don't know, but 20 kilometeres and all lights are still on.

 

[Blew it]

According to Tonaro, when pedalling, the low position gives 60% extra assistance, the medium 80% and high gives 100%......

Lynda,

Amps = torque (power)

Volts = speed

The three position switch controls the voltage available to the motor, not the amps.

I'm not sure how to interpret Phil's figures, but I think you should read them as follows. With the wheel magnet removed, in reverse order.

Position three: Maximum possible road speed at full battery voltage (around 39 volts).

Position two: 80% of max speed. (voltage reduced)

Position one: 60% of max speed (voltage reduced still further)

If my memory serves me right, the throttle does not overide the pedelec, so the throttle will give a road speed the same as the pedelec in each switch position.

If you prefer the performance with the magnet off, and providing you don't mind comitting a hanging offence, there's no need to put it back on. For maximum range per charge, pootle the bike along at 14-15 mph in position one on the switch.

If you want a slightly shorter but quicker ride, switch to position two and rattle along at around 17 mph.

If your being chased home by an approaching storm-front, then switch to position three and go like the clappers to avoid a drenching.

Whichever speed you want to maintain, the range per charge will always be optimised if you can maintain enough human pedal power to keep the road speed at the point where the assistance is tapering down, at this point the motor is drawing just a few amps from the battery.

".....I love the hub gears........."

So do I Lynda, My Kalkhoff Sahel Pro disc has the Alfine eight-speed, which prompts a request (no, not that, my names Bob not John ) how does your hub-gear cope with the slight run-on after the pedals stop turning. Is there any reluctance by the gears to change while the motor assistance is still driving through the chain?.

Reasons to be cheerful, the weather is set fine for the weekend. (switch position three might be needed on Monday)

All the best.
Bob

 

[funkylyn]

Thanks Bob for the explanation.........that seems a lot clearer.

My problem is I hate "pootling along ".....but I suppose at times when needing to conserve battery....needs must !

Something else to get hung for eh ?
Well, you know what they say.......may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.......

As for the hub gear change....yes, I have noticed that....

And the weather....I thought it was forecast rain for sunday ?

Still......reasons to be cheerful......F1 qualifying and the race are very early starts this weekend so it wont interfere with my cycling

Thanks for your help Bob

Lynda

 

[funkylyn]

Lynda,

The three position switch does not control the amount of 'power' available. This was my understanding at first, but this proved to be wrong (kindly confirmed by NRG).

The three position switch controls the road speed to which the motor assists, something like:

Position one, assistance dies away at around 14 mph.
Position two, assists to around 17 mph.
Position three, approximately 18 mph.

The amount of torque, or pulling power, is exactly the same in all three positions.


Bob,

Just re reading this.......when starting off at low speed when you change up the power settings the bike noticeably surges forward with more speed so surely that would suggest that it is giving more torque according to which setting you are on ?
Not just controlling the road speed it assists at as at the time of changing the setting I am still at a lower speed ?

Or am I missing something here and am just tired and need to get back to bed after qualifying ?

Lynda

 

[funkylyn]

Oh YES YES YES YES YES YES YES........there IS a god......

Lewis on form AT LAST.....bit late in the day, but never mind.......

Lynda

 

[Blew it]

".......when starting off at low speed when you change up the power settings the bike noticeably surges forward with more speed so surely that would suggest that it is giving more torque......"

Yes, it does, and that is why I misunderstood the function of the three-position switch. I'm not too clever with electronics, but member NRG kindly came to the rescue with THIS REPLY

Enjoy the GP.
Bob

 

[mike killay]

Well I am no too sure if all the Tonaros are the same, but on my Enduro the throttle completely overides the 3 position switch.
At the moment, I have swung the sensor out of line with the magnet ring so the pedelec does not operate. Also, the magnet which controls cut off at 15 mph has fallen off.
Consequently, the bike is driven on throttle only and on the flat can get up to 18-19 mph depending on the wind. It makes no difference if the 3 position switch is in 1, 2 or 3
The problem with not using the pedelec is that on long flat stretches which would normally be covered on switch position 1, the tendency is to use full throttle because
a It is uncomfortable for the hand continually using half throttle.
b Bumps etc. tend to make it difficult to use slight throttle.
The downside to using pedelec is that on the Tonaro, power continues for a few yards after ceasing to pedal. This makes gear changes noisy etc. It is possible to avoid this either by gently touching a brake lever or using the on off switch. I am looking at installing a thumb button wired to the brake switch in such a manner that touching the button and at the same time changing gear will smooth things out.