To build or not to build

[peter.c]

I keep getting this crazy idea to build a custom fat wheeled tricycle
road legal and 250watt long range will have no use for it when finished just cannot shake it

 

[Woosh]

as long as you recover your cost plus earn a small amount for your time, this is a hobby, not an addiction.

 

[peter.c]

The only thing is the crazy public on ebay or gumtree I do not know how you deal with it [woosh] the can you swap for an ipad and 300 for cash etc the build appeals to my inner tinker to much time on my hands

 

[Tim Goffin]

I keep getting this crazy idea to build a custom fat wheeled tricycle
road legal and 250watt long range will have no use for it when finished just cannot shake it

LOL , in my eyes there's only one way of looking at this. Can you afford it? If yes DO IT and post pics lol... maybe 250w might be abit underpowered for such a machine tho!

 

[danielrlee]

The only thing is the crazy public on ebay or gumtree

Amen! As somebody who earns a living from ebay, as well as other other online sales channels, I advise that you should always follow the golden rule: Never sell something that you can't afford to lose!

 

[peter.c]

Worked in sales for years have to agree do not make what does not sell
but now semi retired the inner tinker is bored
the thought of a low rider just will not shake chopper style
or fat bike off road style 4 inch tyres and all
250watt and gears will be ok it would have to be road legal

 

[Blunderbuss]

Do it , i am thinking about doing a two wheel drive bike - like you not because i need it.

 

[sjpt]

Try to find somebody locally who will want one in advance, and make it according to their needs. They get a (relatively) cheap custom build, you get to know the result will appropriate/appreciated, and reduced/no risk of being lumbered with it at the end.

 

[Woosh]

+1 from me too.
There are lots of brand new good bikes at very reasonable price, some are dead easy to work on like Specialized, Trek, Giant and Halfords bikes.
Make £100 a day converting them to electric.

 

[danielrlee]

Make £100 a day converting them to electric.

IMO, £100 a day is not enough to also cover support and a warranty. There's nothing wrong with creating a one-off for resale, but as an ongoing business you're asking for trouble with that sort of margin.

 

[Woosh]

MO, £100 a day is not enough to also cover support and a warranty.

support and warranty are provided by the suppliers of the kit and it does not take a whole day to fit a kit.
How long does it take you to fit a motor wheel or a BBS01 motor?

 

[danielrlee]

support and warranty are provided by the suppliers of the kit and it does not take a whole day to fit a kit.
How long does it take you to fit a motor wheel or a BBS01 motor?

That doesn't reflect what could happen in practice. Is the supplier going to carry out fault finding and troubleshooting on your behalf? Is the supplier going to carry out the repair work or parts replacement themselves? Are they going to deal with your angry and frustrated customer for you?

It doesn't matter how good your product is, things go wrong from time-to-time. It doesn't take many unaccounted for issues before your profit is destroyed when operating on a low margin.

 

[Woosh]

That doesn't reflect what could happen in practice. Is the supplier going to carry out fault finding and troubleshooting on your behalf? Is the supplier going to carry out the repair work or parts replacement themselves? Are they going to deal with your angry and frustrated customer for you?

It doesn't matter how good your product is, things go wrong from time-to-time. It doesn't take many unaccounted for issues before your profit is destroyed when operating on a low margin.

most self builders are capable of diagnosing the problem themselves and only rely on suppliers for replacement parts. If I were to provide someone with a fitting service, I would restrict the range of kits to the most sensible ones, and legal kits to minimise issues like you mentioned.
Fitting is supplied labour.
Should an issue arises, the customer having bought the bike and kit, can rely on the suppliers of bike and kit for support. They (customer and suppliers) may ask for my view but removal and refitting work is chargeable to the customer. As long as the customer is aware of the extend of your offer, everyone will know where they stand.

 

[peter.c]

Woosh is thinking long term a scaled up production, the cost of one problem every 100 bikes is not a problem, but on a small scale it would be a head ache
one build for a customer and you become a trader with all that would entail [public liability tax ni ] and with the cost of the kits on the rise I do not see it working

If you sold it as new or even used on ebay and the purchaser uses pay pal even in 180 days time it develops a minor fault its a full refund.[even if the listing states no returns]
ebay always side with the buyer if you take the time to read all the small print
The only thing not covered is a second hand car unless there is an error in the description it could be a total loss no bike no cash worse still if the credit card is stolen again no bike no cash .If you fit the kit to there own new bike they would loose the manufactures warranty and any problems are yours

sorry to be doom and gloom but used to sell and install cctv/alarms so already now the pit falls

 

[danielrlee]

most self builders are capable of diagnosing the problem themselves and only rely on suppliers for replacement parts.

This ignores the fact that your time comes at a cost. Time spent on support is time lost on building more bikes. This cost has to be accounted for.

Should an issue arises, the customer having bought the bike and kit, can rely on the suppliers of bike and kit for support. They (customer and suppliers) may ask for my view but removal and refitting work is chargeable to the customer. As long as the customer is aware of the extent of your offer, everyone will know where they stand.

This comment surprised me, coming from a trade member, but I might have misunderstood your point. All the exceptions, exclusions and T's & C's in the world can't relieve you of your legal responsibilities as a business. If the product sold is not "fit for purpose", it's the trader's responsibility. Why would you suggest otherwise?

 

[peter.c]

To test this theory I listed the zobop on Gumtree and ebay for a week at cost and it cost a lot when it was listed on paper
It got a lot of page views and a sh-t load of dumb questions but every other question is about a warranty or guarantee how can you offer this when the first thing the buyer will do is ride it like they stole it then put it on full power and blow the controller I can see why halfords use a closed system and a high mark up
I TAKE MY HAT OF TO WOOSH FOR THE SERVICE THEY OFFER I could not do it

 

[danielrlee]

I TAKE MY HAT OF TO WOOSH FOR THE SERVICE THEY OFFER

Hear hear!

Dealing with unexpected issues does become easier once an operation is scaled up, which might explain the difference between Tony's and our view on the subject.

 

[Woosh]

This comment surprised me, coming from a trade member, but I might have misunderstood your point. All the exceptions, exclusions and T's & C's in the world can't relieve you of your legal responsibilities as a business. If the product sold is not "fit for purpose", it's the trader's responsibility. Why would you suggest otherwise?

yes, I have a tendency to confuse, sorry about that.
I think we can agree that if the problem is caused by the user, then there is no confusion as to who should pick up the tab. If it's a manufacturing fault, then whoever supplies the part will have to sort it.
If you, as a fitter, restrict your choices to the best known and legal kits, I don't see why there should be any issue with 'fit for purpose'.

 

[danielrlee]

yes, I have a tendency to confuse, sorry about that.
I think we can agree that if the problem is caused by the user, then there is no confusion as to who should pick up the tab. If it's a manufacturing fault, then whoever supplies the part will have to sort it.
If you, as a fitter, restrict your choices to the best known and legal kits, I don't see why there should be any issue with 'fit for purpose'.

If you have complete control over both your sales channel and finances, I would be inclined to agree with you. However, the waters are often muddied when selling through online marketplaces and accepting certain payment methods, where buyers' rights exceeds the minimum expected of a business by law. Here, buyer opinion trumps all else.

This might not be what you had in mind when discussing the matter, but for a one-man operation, it can be the most relevant issue of all.

Whoever suggested that the OP find a local buyer to commission a build had a good idea IMO.

 

[Woosh]

Whoever suggested that the OP find a local buyer to commission a build had a good idea IMO.

that's what sjpt first suggested, he's got 2 agrees for it, I offered a +1 and expanded on the same idea.

sjpt's post:

Try to find somebody locally who will want one in advance, and make it according to their needs. They get a (relatively) cheap custom build, you get to know the result will appropriate/appreciated, and reduced/no risk of being lumbered with it at the end.