Throttles why do they go bad so easily?

[minexplorer]

yes i know.they re so cheap why care. But i have a cats curiosity to know why something with no obvious fault...Like a broken wire,or charred resistor wont work.What goes wrong with them?
Got a wuxing 108x on the way now.But Both my bbs01 thumb throttles caused problems with my PAS, after getting several drenchings. Ive stripped and dried them.Ive covered the wire joins to the circuit board in clear nail varnish.Ive sealed with silcon.Theres no longer any wet causing the POS an 5v crossing swords.Yet one remains unresponsive.The other works flawlessly in itself ,but still causes momentary cutting out of the PAS when pushing off .So is it that tiny hall sensor in them goes bad? Any ideas anyone, any tekkies ,throttle designers out there?

 

[minexplorer]

yes i know.they re so cheap why care. But i have a cats curiosity to know why something with no obvious fault...Like a broken wire,or charred resistor wont work.What goes wrong with them?
Got a wuxing 108x on the way now.But Both my bbs01 thumb throttles caused problems with my PAS, after getting several drenchings. Ive stripped and dried them.Ive covered the wire joins to the circuit board in clear nail varnish.Ive sealed with silcon.Theres no longer any wet causing the POS an 5v crossing swords.Yet one remains unresponsive.The other works flawlessly in itself ,but still causes momentary cutting out of the PAS when pushing off .So is it that tiny hall sensor in them goes bad? Any ideas anyone, any tekkies ,throttle designers out there?

Considering the amount of times throttles play a part in ebike problems. i thought someone would chuck in their two peneth worth.

 

[Nealh]

The only issue I have had with thumb throttle is a wire break/ intermittent contact causing a problem and water ingress shorting the Julet pins.
Operation wise I do prefer the lever style of the 108x which can be had for less then £6 each and appear to be better weathered.

 

[flecc]

I prefer twistgrip throttles, but they are also often unreliable and sometimes flimsy.

I think the entire design of e-bike throttles is rubbish, Hall sensors in this sort of usage are too much like on-off switches.
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[wheeliepete]

Maybe because they are no longer fitted to factory bikes and restricted to the kit market the demand is not there for more companies to develop and improve them. I have salvaged half twist throttles from old SLA bikes which have been left outside to rust, they appear more robust and better made and still working.

 

[minexplorer]

The only issue I have had with thumb throttle is a wire break/ intermittent contact causing a problem and water ingress shorting the Julet pins.
Operation wise I do prefer the lever style of the 108x which can be had for less then £6 each and appear to be better weathered.

Did u find as i have ,once you have rectified the water shorting problem ,the effects strangely persist. In my case PAS cutting in an out a little .Im wondering if once they develop a problem they are damaged permanently

 

[danielrlee]

I think the entire design of e-bike throttles is rubbish, Hall sensors in this sort of usage are too much like on-off switches.
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This maybe an obvious point, but I find that this phenomenon is inversely proportional to power output. It's difficult to feel the difference in power when modulating the throttle on a low powered bike. You soon learn that a bit of finesse is critical when operating the throttle on a multi kW bike though.

 

[Nealh]

Did u find as i have ,once you have rectified the water shorting problem ,the effects strangely persist. In my case PAS cutting in an out a little .Im wondering if once they develop a problem they are damaged permanently

The issue with Julet cleared it self once I cleaned the green copper track between pins, a dob of grease also helped. It us only the wire/pin contact continuity which was affected and not the sensor.

 

[flecc]

This maybe an obvious point, but I find that this phenomenon is inversely proportional to power output. It's difficult to feel the difference in power when modulating the throttle on a low powered bike. You soon learn that a bit of finesse is critical when operating the throttle on a multi kW bike though.

I have no problem with finesse at a standstill or on a very smooth road, but at speed on our typically bumpy roads it's a different matter. It's often either choosing on or off, or attempting fine control and having a rapidly snatching on/off judder as the bike twitches about.

The range of actual control on Hall throttle is far too small.
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[danielrlee]

I have no problem with finesse at a standstill or on a very smooth road, but at speed on our typically bumpy roads it's a different matter. It's often either choosing on or off, or attempting fine control and having a rapidly snatching on/off judder as the bike twitches about.
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The issue is likely made worse by a mismatch between the throttle's voltage output range and the controller's expected voltage input range, even when supplied together as part of a kit, or fitted to a pre-built bike. This causes a 'dead zone' at both fully closed and fully open throttle, which makes it even harder to operate the throttle at partial values.
Employing a device such as a Cycle Analyst V3 lets you remap the throttle output precisely to the controller's input range, effectively eliminating the dead zones and improving modulation & feel.

 

[flecc]

Employing a device such as a Cycle Analyst V3 lets you remap the throttle output precisely to the controller's input range, effectively eliminating the dead zones and improving modulation & feel.

Thanks for the information, but £100+ for something to correct what should have been right in the first place! Perhaps acceptable to an enthusiast, but not the average person buying an e-bike.

Having said that the law has now solved the problem for most by excluding throttles in favour of pedelec control.
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[danielrlee]

Thanks for the information, but £100+ for something to correct what should have been right in the first place! Perhaps acceptable to an enthusiast, but not the average person buying an e-bike.

Having said that the law has now solved the problem for most by excluding throttles in favour of pedelec control.
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I agree that purchasing a Cycle Analyst solely to solve this specific issue is not worth it.

What many don't realise though, is that the Cycle Analyst is far more than just a 'power meter'. If you are able to make use of more of its functionality, it would still be VFM at twice the price IMO. All in all, a first class product from a first class company.

 

[Charliefox]

I have no problem with finesse at a standstill or on a very smooth road, but at speed on our typically bumpy roads it's a different matter. It's often either choosing on or off, or attempting fine control and having a rapidly snatching on/off judder as the bike twitches about.

The range of actual control on Hall throttle is far too small.
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I use a full sized throttle on rough stuff and find it best to use my thumb wrapped around the stationary left side of the throttle and holding the required ammount of twist by a gentle sqeeze between said thumb and fingers. I used to do this on long motorway rides by motorcycle. It saves having your hand at an awkward position for long periods and is not affected by jolts. Works for me every time but only a full throttle mind.

 

[flecc]

I agree that purchasing a Cycle Analyst solely to solve this specific issue is not worth it.

What many don't realise though, is that the Cycle Analyst is far more than just a 'power meter'. If you are able to make use of more of its functionality, it would still be VFM at twice the price IMO. All in all, a first class product from a first class company.

Yes I'm aware of that and fully agree about the Cycle Analyst products and Justin's work. But the vast majority of e-bikers wouldn't be interested and some like Shan in a current thread are wholly against complicating e-bikes further.

I'm in that camp too, preferring to keep as close as possible to the simplicity of cycling.
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[danielrlee]

But the vast majority of e-bikers wouldn't be interested and some like Shan in a current thread are wholly against complicating e-bikes further.

Most likely, yes, you are correct.

My first experience with the CA was eye-opening. It is one of those products that I never knew I needed until I finally purchased one. I now consider all but the most basic of builds incomplete without one. I am most definitely in the 'enthusiast' camp though; one of those weirdos who only does DIY ebikes and wouldn't ever consider buying pre-built.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Most likely, yes, you are correct.

My first experience with the CA was eye-opening. It is one of those products that I never knew I needed until I finally purchased one. I now consider all but the most basic of builds incomplete without one. I am most definitely in the 'enthusiast' camp though; one of those weirdos who only does DIY ebikes and wouldn't ever consider buying pre-built.

We would never have guessed... The CA does stuff I need and probably too much stuff I don't need right now. When I get older (already grey) and graduate to throttles it probably be on my shopping list.

 

[harrys]

Nothing inside my thumb throttle except for a 3 terminal Hall sensor soldered to a three wire cable. These sensors are not hermetic, and were not intended to resist water. Popping them open and adding a dollop of silicon seal around the leads would help.

I believe you can just take out the one screw and see the sensor, without having to unsnap the whole body on the above style. I haven't been able to disassemble a twist throttle.

 

[D C]

Popping them open and adding a dollop of silicon seal around the leads would help.

I did that to my throttle around four years back and not had any problems, still going strong.
I wonder if filling the other voids with Vaseline or similar would be beneficial or do more harm than good.
Dave

 

[danielrlee]

FYI: The correct part number for anyone seeking replacement hall sensors to fix a faulty throttle is 49E.

 

[danielrlee]

So, you're saying that both the throttle and PAS work okay independently of each other, as long as you don't use them at the same time?