Throttles - eScooters v eBikes

[flecc]

It seems to me that it was ok for years as you've stated below that from 1983 to 2003 15mph was legal. 20 years is clearly many years. So, the use case was simply to fall in line with the EU? Now we are out of the EU, what's to stop the law on throttles being changed?

You are over simplifying it. Only the change to 15 mph in 1983 was to get closer to the EU's 25 kph. Nothing else was, we kept to our 200 watts rather than the EU's 250 watts, and what's more we also followed by introducing a 14 years lower age limit that no other EU country has.

And finally on the legal position, we have never at any time said that throttles were legal. Our poorly drafted law simply omitted to say how power was to be applied, the legislators probably assuming we'd do the same as the EU.

There is nothing to stop us changing the law now, but it won't be. That's because the government has made it clear that they want our law to stay aligned to the EU's. To facilitate that the Great Repeal bill was passed before we left the EU, which wrote all the previously accepted EU law from 44 years into British law.

And the government position on keeping EU alignment has been reinforced by them saying that if they do accept powered scooters into law, they want the EU's 20 kph (12.5 mph) limit for them, not the USA's 15 mph.

Yours is the latest of many attempts to get these changes, there's even been a petition to parliament, but I say to you as I have to all others, you are banging your head against a brick wall. It isn't going to happen so just be content with what we've got. Remember, it could just as easily be made worse.
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[UrbanPuma]

You are over simplifying it. Only the change to 15 mph in 1983 was to get closer to the EU's 25 kph. Nothing else was, we kept to our 200 watts rather than the EU's 250 watts, and what's more we also followed by introducing a 14 years lower age limit that no other EU country has.

And finally on the legal position, we have never at any time said that throttles were legal. Our poorly drafted law simply omitted to say how power was to be applied, the legislators probably assuming we'd do the same as the EU.

There is nothing to stop us changing the law now, but it won't be. That's because the government has made it clear that they want our law to stay aligned to the EU's. To facilitate that the Great Repeal bill was passed before we left the EU, which wrote all the previously accepted EU law from 44 years into British law.

And the government position on keeping EU alignment has been reinforced by them saying that if they do accept powered scooters into law, they want the EU's 20 kph (12.5 mph) limit for them, not the USA's 15 mph.

Yours is the latest of many attempts to get these changes, there's even been a petition to parliament, but I say to you as I have to all others, you are banging your head against a brick wall. It isn't going to happen so just be content with what we've got. Remember, it could just as easily be made worse.
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Flecc, what you've said could just as well be the opposite...if nothing was ever mentioned about throttles how can they be deemed illegal? It seems this was a grey area which has now been resolved, but in no way was it illegal otherwise manufactures wouldn't have been selling bikes with throttles.

I'm content, but I'm not thinking about me; moreso about cycling being accessible to other users: disabled, those recovering from injury etc. It's a shame the law changed, but I hope that one day it reverts back. Thanks for your input.

 

[flecc]

Flecc, what you've said could just as well be the opposite...if nothing was ever mentioned about throttles how can they be deemed illegal? It seems this was a grey area which has now been resolved, but in no way was it illegal otherwise manufactures wouldn't have been selling bikes with throttles.

Afraid not, as I said earlier throttles were illegal from 10th November 2003 and never at any point permitted in law. Agreed the manufacturers sold bikes with throttles after that date, but they were all illegal on the road as pedelecs. We protested many times about that and the police attempted prosecutions which I and BEBA had to stop them going ahead with.

That is because of that civil service mess up we accepted the EU two and Three Wheeled Type Approval law. It is that which gives us the exemption from being motor vehicles, BUT only if the power is applied by pedalling and ceases if pedalling stops. With a throttle they become motor vehicles with all that implies.

The police twice started prosecutions which I and BEBA had to stop and after protest to the DfT they held a meeting of interested parties to sort this out. At that meeting on the 13th Apri 2013 the police agreed to operate a waiver that they would not prosecute from then since the DfT intended to change the law, which they did two years later, as said, 6th April 2015.

Believe me, it's a brave or foolhardy man who tries to correct me on this subject. After all it was only my knowledge of ALL of it that stopped the police prosecutions.

Have a read of this link and you'll have the whole picture on pedelec law.
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[UrbanPuma]

It seems to me that it was ok for years as you've stated below that from 1983 to 2003 15mph was legal. 20 years is clearly many years. So, the use case was simply to fall in line with the EU? Now we are out of the EU, what's to stop the law on throttles being changed?

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look. I was referring to the period between 1983-2003. Are you saying throttles were illegal then too, by omission?

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look. I was referring to the period between 1983-2003. Are you saying throttles were illegal then too, by omission?

No, they were legal then by omission.

Seriously, read through on that link. It's a long post but if you read it through you'll understand the whole sorry story of why we are where we are. And not just through EU law which actually greatly improved our lot.
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[UrbanPuma]

No, they were legal then by omission.

Seriously, read through on that link. It's a long post but if you read it through you'll understand the whole sorry story of why we are where we are. And not just through EU law which actually greatly improved our lot.
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Will do