Those kits on e-bay.

[flecc]

I have not heard of a trike falling over on a corner - though I am sure some have.

Everso

You may remember that KMX started out with a kids recumbent trike design, and the first road test I saw was
with someone's youngster testing it. He promptly hurtled down a slope into a bend and flipped it. Leaping
back onto his feet he yelled out in delight "I barrel rolled it!"

Once he got the hang of it better, the kid rounded corners with the rear wheel drifting out and soon ripped the
tread off the rear tyre.

Maybe we should get ten year olds to do all the testing, they'd soon find the weaknesses!
.

 

[winterdog]

You may remember that KMX started out with a kids recumbent trike design, and the first road test I saw was
with someone's youngster testing it. He promptly hurtled down a slope into a bend and flipped it. Leaping
back onto his feet he yelled out in delight "I barrel rolled it!"

Once he got the hang of it better, the kid rounded corners with the rear wheel drifting out and soon ripped the
tread off the rear tyre.

Maybe we should get ten year olds to do all the testing, they'd soon find the weaknesses!
.

I fund that although they may not be methodical giving my applications to the kids for five minis to look at. Gives me a idea of how things react when used in a way that i did not make them for

davidk

 

[Everso]

You may remember that KMX started out with a kids recumbent trike design, and the first road test I saw was
with someone's youngster testing it. He promptly hurtled down a slope into a bend and flipped it. Leaping
back onto his feet he yelled out in delight "I barrel rolled it!"

Once he got the hang of it better, the kid rounded corners with the rear wheel drifting out and soon ripped the
tread off the rear tyre.

Maybe we should get ten year olds to do all the testing, they'd soon find the weaknesses!
.

I remember it well. I strongly suspect there is a difference between a 10 year old on a £300 kmx and a fat mid 40s bloater on a £1,000 plus commute to work. I remember seeing the videos when it first came out. I think that more than anything else at the time made me wish I was a kid again. They looked so much fun. I was waiting for someone to fit a big roll cage to one so they could roll the thing - have it bounce back onto it wheels and just drive on. That would have been so cool but if didn't seem to happen. I had great hopes that those cheap KMXs would get kids out and riding again but they didn't seem to catch on that well.

Everso

 

[flecc]

I think that more than anything else at the time made me wish I was a kid again. They looked so much fun.

I had great hopes that those cheap KMXs would get kids out and riding again but they didn't seem to catch on that well.

Everso

The same with me, one of the very few times I regretted my age!

I had the same hopes of them getting kids out riding them, and at £350 it could have happened. The kids
would have loved it, but the trouble is more to do with over-protective parents not wanting their kids to
cycle at all. Those not allowed bikes seem to be in the majority in my area.
.

 

[Andrew harvey]

The Currie drive kits are now virtually unobtainable in Europe, there may be a few lying about I've got a few bits but I do not know if they would amount to a whole set. The best way to get them would be to ask at an Izip dealer for spares, motor, controller buy a kit in pieces or even a cheap bike.
I know Flecc seams to dislike direct drive motors, but they are not all rubbish, I've fitted one to an old trike, a 4011. At 36v on an upright bike they used to give enough assistance to pull me and my two kids on a You Plus Two up a short but steep 1 in 10, for a current draw of around 10 amps. The 4011 is the lowest powered Crystalyte motor putting out an absolute peak of 220 watts, (I tested one on a bench to see how accurate the manufactures figures were). The trike owner mentioned above was running at 60v. If I was going to use a direct drive motor I would go for a 408 Crystalyte, ( quite fast, good hill climbing, reasonably economical and cheap) or a Bionx. The other Chinese products are an unknown quantity.

These have a disadvantage in that the motor is permanently engaged, this results in motor drag. This clogging torque is felt with the motor turned off and is a drag at speed, the cheaper Crystalyte has much more drag than the Bionx, as such once fitted a bike becomes an e-bike only with the Crystalyte, at least at high speeds. I used them for about 10 years, no one I built a bike for was disappointed (maybe first e-bike/ low expectations).
The Ezee kits shouldn't be ruled out, I have always felt they were overpriced for Chinese kits, but they do have service back up and a decent guarantee on the battery, which may well be worth paying the premium for.If you only need help on hills, fitting a motor into a smaller rim gives excellent results if you have to use a 26" motor.
The other option which I have being watching for some time is the Elation from Australia, ( elation.au I think ). They have told me that they will have a new stock of kits in by the middle of July. They have a freewheeling 3 speed chainring a motor clutch and a frame mounted battery pack included in the kit which should cost around £550 plus posting. I will be getting a sample hopefully and will post a review.
I also think that the Cyclone kit has now being updated along similar lines, I've seen a few on e-bay, but they could be cheap copies of the Elation, buyer beware.
Were can I find KMX's?

 

[flecc]

I know Flecc seams to dislike direct drive motors, but they are not all rubbish,

I don't automatically dislike them Andrew, but I mention their limitations as well as their advantages of simplicity
and often quiet operation. I respect good examples like the BionX and Crystalyte motors, but Everso has
stressed his budget needs and these motors are not within it.

For the most part, the cheaper Chinese direct drive examples are not particularly good, mainly relying like the
one in this thread on being illegally powered to perform. Europe doesn't do any better, the EU legal Sparta/Koga
motor is a very poor performer on any sort of hill and completely outclassed by any legal internally geared motor.

The fact that internally geared motors now completely dominate the market is proof enough of the deficiencies
of direct drive, since the cheaper and simpler to produce direct drives would dominate if they were really
adequate competition.

Thanks for the information on the Currie kit availability, I knew it hadn't been handled well here for some while.
It seems Everso may have to fall back on the 1000 watt direct drive second option and cope with the battery
needs for that, or buy a Cyclone kit. However, Electrodrive say that fresh Currie supplies are due in a few
weeks if that can be believed.

Cyclone are now supplying a three piece freewheeling chainwheel, here's their fitting page, but it seems to
depend on using the large chainwheel for the motor drive for normal gearing, and I don't know how well it
would suit the KMX. Cyclone seem to favour the double freewheel for that purpose.

The eZee kit is not an option for Everso's recumbent trike since it only comes as a front wheel motor and is too
dear for him at present anyway.

Here's the KMX website with a dealers link:

KMX Karts
.

 

[Everso]

Flecc - yeha what you said.

The electro drive would not be my first choice. There are limitations and I am going to have to live with them until the savings (£6 per day) kick in and I can do better. The cobra will cost me £50 per month so I need to commute 9 times per month to pay for it. If I am able to do more than that (hopefully possible with the help it gives) that will go into a jar to save up for something better. The cyclescheme lasts for a year and after that I will no longer be paying that £50 per month. I figure when I have a decent amount (maybe 18 months or so) I will be back here asking for recomendations on a dream set up that will last me for ever.

Until then - I make do with what I can aford or find cheap on e-bay to fix up. I have already been in touch with electro drive and am hoping to get a delivery date from them. I will report back when I hear any thing.

Oh - one more thing - does any one know if the currie can be attached to a wheel with a disk brake? The cobra has one but from experence with my current trike (2 front hub brakes only) I know that the rear brake can be removed without any risk. If it comes to it I wil just take the disk off and leave it in a box until I get something else and refit it.

Everso

 

[flecc]

No, the Currie motor mounting block will only fit onto standard 36 spoke hubs, large wall hubs, hub gears, hub or
disc brakes are not possible with it. Can you completely lose the disc brake to leave only the small hub wall?
Your two front brakes should be adequate if so, and that complies with the law.

I'm afraid Electrodrive haven't been to good with communications in the past, but hopefully you will get an answer
you can rely on.
.

 

[Everso]

No, the Currie motor mounting block will only fit onto standard 36 spoke hubs, large wall hubs, hub gears, hub or
disc brakes are not possible with it. Can you completely lose the disc brake to leave only the small hub wall?
Your two front brakes should be adequate if so, and that complies with the law.

I'm afraid Electrodrive haven't been to good with communications in the past, but hopefully you will get an answer
you can rely on.
.

It kind of looked that way to me. My current trice only has 2 front hub brakes and the back is just a parking brake. I never felt that I was short on stopping power so 2 disk brakes should do just fine.

The next cow pat in my path to electric heaven is that it looks like it is a 32 spoke wheel as standard. This means changing to a different wheel or getting hold of a 32 spoke adapter. Form what I have read so far these are hard to find nowadays.

In my way of looking at things in a simple way ... is is possible to fasten the adapter that should go through the sopkes onto the disk brake? I have access to a friendly welder - or good old fashaned nut and bolt. This should be at least as strong as through the spokes. After all the disk is designed to stop the whole bike on serious hills so should be able to pull it up them as well.

I'm off to google - see if I anyone has had a go at that.

Everso.

 

[flecc]

Your suggestion would be better than a spoke block attachment. The spoke attachment block is alloy, so only
welding to alloy will be possible of course, but bolts might be ok. However I think that will leave the motor
drive too far out to fit normally, so the thick alloy spoke block will have to turned down thinner to get the
alignment right.

Currie only ever made a 36 spoke block as far as I know, but there were other sources for various custom
items which could well have included a 32 spoke block.

Scott at EVdeals in the USA can supply all manner of Currie special parts.
.

 

[Everso]

The quest continues - and I came across this.

bicycle engine kit installation

this is for a petrol engine kit. It sits in the frame and drive a toothed wheel attached to the real wheel - non drive side - in a similar style to a Currie. Now I am not intersted in putting a stinking, noisy illegal 2 stroke that close to me but .. that real wheel cog seems very heavy duty and available very cheaply as a spare part.

I was wondering if I could fit one of those and drive it with an electric motor mounted behind the seat. Think that would work? It would be very neat if I could get it to go. No messing with existing drive chain - all tucked out the way minimal length for the wires to run.

If you think it could work - any ideas what motor would be suitable? I am handy with mechanics and electrics and not at all afraid to mess on with things so it does not have to be a "ready to go" kit.

Everso

 

[flecc]

That's certainly a viable way of driving a bike, but you really need a fairly smooth running motor with good control
to provide the drive, since the chain drive could be very snatchy in nature.

There have been two commercial bikes like this, but both using a belt drive to a left hand pulley. One was the
£2500 Swizzbee which had a non-standard Heinzmann motor mounted at the top of the rear A frame at the rear of
the seat tube. That used a very clever differential rear hub which balanced the rider's derailleur input with the
motor input, the differential output being the hubshell and therefore the wheel.

That's defunct now, but the same Swiss Dolphin company designer is behind an equivalent $2999 US bike known as the
Izip Express, made by Currie Technologies, the Izip people.

Izip Express

For your purposes the most suitable motors will be the throttle controlled Cyclone motors since they are already
chain sprocket drive and may roughly match that rear sprocket to give around 15 mph or more performance. If
not you could weld or bolt a larger sprocket to the existing Cyclone one to give a higher speed. I'd recommend
one of the more powerful versions like the 500 watt, since the motor won't have the advantage of selectable
gearing for hills.
.

 

[Everso]

For your purposes the most suitable motors will be the throttle controlled Cyclone motors since they are already
chain sprocket drive and may roughly match that rear sprocket to give around 15 mph or more performance. If
not you could weld or bolt a larger sprocket to the existing Cyclone one to give a higher speed. I'd recommend
one of the more powerful versions like the 500 watt, since the motor won't have the advantage of selectable
gearing for hills.
.

There would be no need to gear up for extra speed - in fact the reverse. I would be more likly to gear down for hill climbing. If I can do 10 mph up the big hills in my area I am going to call this project a success.

I have been in touch with the guy that runs the uk cyclone site and explained my issues with the triple crank/freewheel and asked for advice. Interestingly enough in the reply to my first e-mail he did mention fitting a cyclone motor behind the seat on a KMX so I have asked for more information on that.

Another thing I am considering is to regard this at a short term solution and take the triple crank off to fit a single freewheel one. This would get it going ok but would make hills just about imposible without a motor so I woluld be very dependant on things going ok and there being enough charge, not a situation I like the idea of.

Very complicated this electric trike stuff.

Everso

EDIT

Just heard back from him. Apprently cyclone now do a triple free wheel. So it looks like it is gong to be possible. The only issue may be the chain lenght is a bit short for a triple change. Might come down to setting it up inline with the senter ring and only use power when in that gear. He did also say that there have been trice classics set up with a chain wheel on the left. This does not have the freewheel so drives your feet round and apprently is not too bad. Thinking about that option - given that the motor is supposed to stop when you do not pedal it might be an god idea form a stealth point of view. as that would leave all gears intact it would be possible to select the large front crank (small on the back to gear as low there) and the feet should not have to travel too much any way.
I have asked a few more questions and am waiting for an anwser.

 

[Boby]

Cyclone kit works with a modified crank mechanism I saw in Warsaw Bimoto crank mechanism . It is offered by a Cyclone distributor also with Cyclone motors Bimoto electric bikes.
The idea and make similiar to Elation kit. This crank transmitted the power generated by Honda engines attached to bikes (a video) Bike with a Honda engine.

You may look at EcoSpeed site EcoSpeed. Their chain drive system is designed for recumbrents.

Sunstar ibike SO2 may also be suitable but I am not sure whether it is still available in the market Sunstar French Distributor.

 

[flecc]

Apprently cyclone now do a triple free wheel. So it looks like it is gong to be possible. The only issue may be
the chain lenght is a bit short for a triple change. Might come down to setting it up inline with the senter ring
and only use power when in that gear.

Yes, I mentioned above that they do a triple chainring, but you can't use it with only that very short chainrun
to the front mounted motor, even for your pedalling only, the chain cannot twist that much. The way it's set
up is that the motor drives with a short chain onto one of the chainrings and the remaining pair are used on
the full length chain to the rear wheel, so you only get two chainrings for gearing purposes. The other thing
is that the motor drives the large chainring to get a low enough road speed, so you are only left with the two
smaller chainrings for gear changing purposes, though one of those could be a good size ring.
.