Think Highway Code changes are good? Read on - - -

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,214
30,614
According to new plans announced by the Department for Transport, the Highway Code is to be updated to allow motorists to take their hands from the wheel and even watch video in slow moving traffic, provided that certain conditions are met.

Under the plans when travelling at under 37mph in a single lane, vehicles capable of autonomy will be allowed to take full control. Though the new rules will not allow the use of a mobile phone, drivers will be able to watch content on their built in entertainment system.

Although initially intended only for motorway use only, the accompanying propaganda makes it clear this is the thin edge of a wedge. I also question the value of an only under 37 mph system for motorways. They do get slow at times, but only rarely do we spend much time at below 37 mph. And will drivers using self drive always switch it off as they leave the motorway and encounter bicycles and pedestrians, or instead finish watching the video?

I already have such a near to qualifying system in my recent Nissan e-car but I don't normally use it since it can be dangerous. Nissan have already admitted that the system cannot be relied on to see bicycles, the main rival Tesla system has the same problem and cars using the latter type of system have already killed two cyclists in the USA. One, an Uber car, didn't even recognise the bicycle side on, mowing down the bike and the woman crossing the road pushing it, killing her.

These systems see cars and adult pedestrians ok, but little seems known about how they cope with two wheelers, small fast moving pedestrians like small children and dogs, or pedestrians holding, carrying or wheeling objects. The systems can even miss seeing very large objects, one Tesla on self drive in the USA failed to see a huge artic crossing the road, drove on at speed under the trailer, chopping off the top half of the car and beheading the driver. Tesla have more recently admitted to the US Department of Transport that their claimed level 5 full self drive system is in fact only level 2, assist with driver remaining in full control .

The announcement was made by Junior Transport Minister Rachel Maclean.

.
 

StuartsProjects

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 9, 2021
1,788
1,010
And will drivers using self drive always switch it off as they leave the motorway and encounter bicycles and pedestrians, or instead finish watching the video?
Presumably if it only has a couple of minutes to run that would be ok as its only a 'minor' breach of rules, such as like speeding.

Maybe in twenty years or so the self drive systems will be good enough to allow this sort of thing to be relativly 'safe'. However allowing them under current technology using the fig leaf of 'the driver must reamin attentive and in control' is truely pathetic.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,920
8,533
61
West Sx RH
Another recipe for disaster and one that will I hope be abolished.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: guerney

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,920
8,533
61
West Sx RH
In the late 80's/early 90's tomorrow world spoke of autonomous cars and how they will be wide spread com the millenium, thus far they were wrong by at least 30 years and even today the trials are far from encouraging.
 
Last edited:

StuartsProjects

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 9, 2021
1,788
1,010
What has probably happened is that some study by 'esteemed academics' has shown that in slow moving motorway traffic, the risks are small, after all there should be no pedestrians or cycles . So presumably when these changes come into force, if you break down on a motorway you will be required to stay in your vehicle or exit on the left.

The reality is however, and it must be clear to even the least bright of them in power, that once drivers get used to the idea, in a couple of weeks, the movie watching will happen in other 'slow moving' traffic. The mere thought of drivers watching movies when there are cyclists or pedestrians about is terrifying.

And of course, a dual carriageway can be confused with a motorway, but cyclists are allowed.
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,439
3,250
Another recipe for disaster and one that will I hope be abolished.
Supposed e-scooter legalisation and now this - it's an increasingly dysfunctional government irrationally putting lives at risk.

I pedelec on roads, but riding on pavements to avoid cyclist-blind self "Driving" cars is impossible, because of all the e-scooters.
 
Last edited:

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,439
3,250
Maybe in twenty years or so the self drive systems will be good enough to allow this sort of thing to be relativly 'safe'. However allowing them under current technology using the fig leaf of 'the driver must reamin attentive and in control' is truely pathetic.
I was almost flattened by a merc in a supermarket car park - he was texting... that same berk will be watching Netflix next time. Zoomed by far too fast without any idea that he'd narrowly missed me. I could see him texting, and if I hadn't stopped very suddenly with inches to spare, I'd have ended up like my mate who had his foot broken by a SUV in a Waitrose car park - he still can't walk more than a couple of hundred metres without agonising pain, 4 years on, despite having had no metal implants screwed in.
 
Last edited:

StuartsProjects

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 9, 2021
1,788
1,010
I was almost flattened by a merc in a supermarket car park - he was texting... that same berk will be watching Netflix next time.
And that illustrates the main issue here.

Give a driver a bit of technology and they will use it when they should not.

Evidence for that claim can be seen every time you go out on the roads. Use of mobile phones, in the hand while driving, is common, although its illegal with significant penalties if caught. How often at lights do you see drivers not looking for the lights but staring at their groins where thier hands also are, what are they doing I wonder ?

So them in power are giving the green light to the motor manufacturers to fit technology in vehicles that they must realise will be used outside the specific fig leaf they have conjoured up to make them in power popular.

If you dont want cyclists\pedestrians killed by motorists watching movies whilst driving, ban it completly until it is safe to be used everywhere.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc and guerney

PC2017

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2017
1,319
334
Scunthorpe
I heard but not looked into, but isn't there an investigation in the US about phantom braking on Tesla...

What we should do is rally around Citroen brand to create a driverless car, that imo would kibosh the entire technology within the first test run.
 
  • Like
Reactions: guerney

StuartsProjects

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 9, 2021
1,788
1,010
Supposed e-scooter legalisation and now this - it's an increasingly dysfunctional government irrationally putting lives at risk.
They are likely doing it to distract the voters from the partygate mess and introduce rule changes that highlight the to date illusive benefits of brexit.

That people might get killed is just the price the public have to pay in order for the government to achieve popularity.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc and guerney

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,439
3,250
They are likely doing it to distract the voters from the partygate mess and introduce rule changes that highlight the to date illusive benefits of brexit.

That people might get killed is just the price the public have to pay in order for the government to achieve popularity.
Misuse of stats has a lot to answer for. Our roads and pavements will become a free-for-all like Bali's. It's ok because 95% of people will probably get home alive?
 

jasono

Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2009
217
3
Leicestershire
It's quite scary stuff - why on Earth would they even suggest it when imo the technology isn't there yet.
My son watches a You tuber who takes great delight in confusing his Tesla - which seems to happen quite alot!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,214
30,614
It's quite scary stuff - why on Earth would they even suggest it when imo the technology isn't there yet.
My son watches a You tuber who takes great delight in confusing his Tesla - which seems to happen quite alot!
My Nissan ProPilot is just as bad. If a pedestrian walks off the kerb into its path, it brakes. Great, just what it should do.

Snag is that when I turn into a local road which commences with a bridge arch, because the front of the car is heading towards the arch pillar as the car swings left, it also brakes.

It can't tell the difference between something heading for the car or the car momentarily heading for something. How could it, it takes a thinking mind capable of judgement to differentiate?

There's other such sillinesses I could post about it, but suffice it to say that it's mostly a worthless gimmick in my experience. Only the cruise control is much use, but on today's congested South East roads there's rarely any roads with uninterrupted cruising conditions.
.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jasono

richtea99

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 8, 2020
441
285
...once drivers get used to the idea, in a couple of weeks, the movie watching will happen in other 'slow moving' traffic.
I'd expect the system to work on geolocating of your vehicle, and actively checking you are travelling along a known motorway (and have been for the past x minutes). That's pretty easy to do. However, it's just one more step towards Big Brother which doesn't fill me with confidence for people's freedom in general.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,214
30,614
I'd expect the system to work on geolocating of your vehicle, and actively checking you are travelling along a known motorway (and have been for the past x minutes). That's pretty easy to do. However, it's just one more step towards Big Brother which doesn't fill me with confidence for people's freedom in general.
It isn't in any way a system.

It's merely a change in British law to allow drivers to legally view etc in the stated conditions in any vehicle with autonomous capabilities. The decision whether to use it is left to the driver, another impossibility for the police to try to sort out.
.
 

I893469365902345609348566

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 20, 2021
543
132
I usually bomb down this hill when the lights don't stop me at about 28mph, but this fat person came to my attention fiddling about on his mobile ambling along and about to cross the road while the lights were green, so I slowed down, a bit. He glanced over and stopped just in time. I didn't sound my horn because I was getting ready to brake hard (already slowed). He stopped with one foot on the road.

In a way it's like he's driving a semi semi-autonomous vehicle: his blubbery fat texting body, and he's supposed to remain alert in case he needs to take action to avert an accident. In his case a second or so lapse in awareness while texting resulted in a short distance into potential danger, in a car a second's distraction viewing video could mean a dead cylist.

We all really ought to write to the Dept of Transport, this change must not pass!

There is no excuse being that fat! He's probably ordering an e-scooter, yet more pizza and a half ton of ice cream


 
Last edited:

I893469365902345609348566

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 20, 2021
543
132
They'll both be ok here under this new law.
.
When will this terrifying new change happen? I might give up cycling, if there is a rash of cylist killings. Unavoidable badger and now this! :rolleyes::eek:
 
Last edited: