Things you can't do on a pedelec-only bike

[Sector]

With a pedelec-only bike you cannot:
1) Get instant response with full electric power to get you out of trouble in traffic.
2) Stop pedalling and keep both feet near to the road for safety if you come across an icy or oily patch on the road.
3) Adopt the "stop if it hurts" approach to exercise. You still have to pedal a pedelec home.
4) Use electric power to totally eliminate those knee-crunching, muscle straining starts.

etc, etc

What sense does it make to enforce pedelec-only, as seems likely with the proposed adoption of European reglations?

 

[jimmyengland1000]

With a pedelec-only bike you cannot:
1) Get instant response with full electric power to get you out of trouble in traffic.
2) Stop pedalling and keep both feet near to the road for safety if you come across an icy or oily patch on the road.
3) Adopt the "stop if it hurts" approach to exercise. You still have to pedal a pedelec home.
4) Use electric power to totally eliminate those knee-crunching, muscle straining starts.

etc, etc

What sense does it make to enforce pedelc-only, as seems likely with the proposed adoption of European reglations?

Yes, agreed, it doesn't make sense. But I don't see why everyone is so preoccupied with what the law says. No policeman I've ever known has the faintest idea of what's what. I've been to my local police station twice to ask them and they haven't got a clue. I bet controllers will have a plug for a throttle for years to come (given the fact that they are usually domestic Chinese controllers used on their own bikes and loads of other countries) and throttles cost about £6 on eBay.

If I did have a pedelec only bike, I'd just fit a throttle and save all the knee crunching etc.

Realistically, what is the likelihood of an attempted prosecution for retro-fitting a throttle to an electric bike that does about 15mph? Assuming an eagle-eyed PC noticed your right handlebar grip didn't look quite the same as the left one........ about nil, I'd say.

The EU is jam-packed with daft legislation about zillions of things.... plumbing, domestic wiring, noise, straight bananas, weights and measures. Most people ignore it all(knowingly or unknowingly). I'd do the same with an electric bike. Given the way things are going with the EU, we'll all be criminals in 10 years time, doing something that breaks some regulation somewhere.

 

[flecc]

Agreed on all those and a couple more too:

Walking a bike up a very steep hill or a lesser one when the battery is almost empty by using the throttle to drive the bike at walking pace.

Using the motor only in a difficult low speed manouvre in confined traffic where pedals would foul the kerb or road bollard.

I believe that European law is making a provision for that first one though, and I think one BikeTech model has it, but I've seen no confirmation.

And in total that's why I don't favour pedelec only law and prefer to have a choice of the bikes I use.

The sense though is only as I posted before, their desire that these remain bikes and don't become motor vehicles.
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[flecc]

Realistically, what is the likelihood of an attempted prosecution for retro-fitting a throttle to an electric bike that does about 15mph? Assuming an eagle-eyed PC noticed your right handlebar grip didn't look quite the same as the left one........ about nil, I'd say.

That's dead right at present. The danger point is when the legislation comes through and is drawn to the attention of forces. Then it could go either way, be ignored and forgotten, or like the seat belt law, relentlessly pursued at every opportunity for an easy ticket.
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[Jeremy]

Enforcement would be tricky for a few years, no matter how zealous the police officer. We are currently allowed to have throttles, so to prove an ebike to be illegal the police would have to prove that it had been manufactured after the appropriate cut-off date for the new legislation.

I strongly suspect that getting accurate dates of manufacture for a specific bike from the majority of the Chinese suppliers will be near-impossible, so the law will be fairly difficult, if not impossible, to enforce.

For those of us that build home-brew conversions it won't present much of a problem at all, as there would be no way of determining when the bike had been converted, I would have thought.

Anyway, as has already been pointed out, the police really couldn't care less about electric bikes, as long as they aren't obviously flouting the law by travelling at silly speeds.

Jeremy

 

[Haku]

Hold on, have I missed something? are they going to outlaw throttles on electric bikes in the UK?

 

[fishingpaul]

I have had two pedelec only bikes a giant suede, and currently a giant revive spirit,both offer instant assistance as soon as you begin to pedal,so pedelec does not have to mean knee crunching hillstarts, it just means that you have to pedal and assist,some throttle powered bikes require some pedalling before the motor kicks in,eg powabykes, however if you pedal backwards on the powabyke and open the throttle the motor kicks in.electric bikes were never meant to be motorbikes.

 

[flecc]

Hold on, have I missed something? are they going to outlaw throttles on electric bikes in the UK?

See here. Throttles in conjunction with pedelec will still be ok, as will existing bikes.
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[Conal]

Reasons for pedelec only

I made the choice to buy a "pedelec only" bike because it makes me pedal. In the morning my will power is strong but after a day's work, given the choice, I would use "throttle only". Once I get going I enjoy the exercise!

Conal

 

[fishingpaul]

As for speeds 50cc scooters have been restricted to 30mph for years now,the bike dealers derestrict most scooters at the first service,this is a commonplace practice, which could probably invalidate the riders insurance(when insuring any vehicle you are asked if it has been modified) derestricting is modifying,i have never heard of anybody being fined for riding a scooter over 30mph,on an electric bike it would be almost impossible to prove that the motor,and not pedalling or the effect of gravity downhill had taken the bike over 15mph.

 

[flecc]

I think it's likely that the only time there might be a problem with illegality could be in the event of a serious accident investigated in depth by the traffic police.
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[Haku]

flecc, I thought ebikes already had to legally have pedal assist in the UK, there are some being sold that don't have pedal assist?

The throttle on my ebike only takes me up to 10mph so if I want to go faster I have to pedal.

I wish there was a legal category of ebikes with a higher power motor and speed, even if it meant getting a license to ride it on road.

 

[flecc]

flecc, I thought ebikes already had to legally have pedal assist in the UK, there are some being sold that don't have pedal assist?

The throttle on my ebike only takes me up to 10mph so if I want to go faster I have to pedal.

I wish there was a legal category of ebikes with a higher power motor and speed, even if it meant getting a license to ride it on road.

Under the UK law that's still in force at present, if you opt for that you can have throttle control only with continuous power with 200 watt rating to 15 mph but cutting dead at that

With European law it's power to 250 watt rating via pedalling, which can be throttle controlled for amount, the power phasing down towards the maximum of 25 kph (15.5 mph) when power is zero.

The Swiss have a 20 mph high speed class that's now been adopted by Germany, this requiring compulsory insurance. Under European law, any benefit one nation has can also be had by any other nation in the EU, so in theory we can have that too. But until someone compels the UK government to pass the regulation into force and thus enable the insurance provision etc, we are being denied that right.
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[Caph]

With a pedelec-only bike you cannot:
...
4) Use electric power to totally eliminate those knee-crunching, muscle straining starts.
QUOTE]

I've only been using my pedelec for a couple of weeks now but I would have to disagree with that one. I already find myself just moving the pedals round on a start and letting the motor carry me up to 9-10mph without actually putting in any effort. I guess I'm getting laxy! Unless my pedelec is different from others, it is only after the bike has been turned off that I have to turn the pedals more than a fraction before the motor kicks in.

It was actually an unforseen benefit. I bought the bike for the steep hills but never thought about the starts. Now I'm just as grateful for both and it has got me thinking how much of my sweatiness (now thankfully a thing of past!) was due to starts and how much was due to headwinds/uphills.

 

[Ian]

f
I wish there was a legal category of ebikes with a higher power motor and speed, even if it meant getting a licence to ride it on road.

There is. Higher power bikes such as the Swizzbee 50c that have type approval can be used in the UK with an appropriate licence, insurance etc. In the UK they fall into the low powered moped category, the downside of which is that they cannot be used on cycle paths etc.

 

[flecc]

There is. Higher power bikes such as the Swizzbee 50c that have type approval can be used in the UK with an appropriate licence, insurance etc. In the UK they fall into the low powered moped category, the downside of which is that they cannot be used on cycle paths etc.

It would be good to have the Swiss/German provision as well though, since that doesn't need the licence and registration etc on the Swizzbee.

Can't see us ever getting it though.

I don't know how that class stands on cyclepaths in Germany, but Austria permits them.
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[Miles]

It would be good to have the Swiss/German provision as well though, since that doesn't need the licence and registration etc on the Swizzbee.

flecc,

Have you managed to find out any more about this? It was a bit of a mystery to me.. So, it's not so dangerous to go more than 25 kph as long as you have insurance?

 

[flecc]

flecc,

Have you managed to find out any more about this? It was a bit of a mystery to me.. So, it's not so dangerous to go more than 25 kph as long as you have insurance?

I only know of the announcement of it being legislated for in Germany, virtually a copy of what the Swiss did. I think the insurance requirement is recognition that it is more dangerous for those who get hit, and the accompanying helmet requirement acknowledging that for the rider too.

I suppose there's some sense in not having a driving licence or a tax class since sport bike cyclists ride at 20 mph or more all the time without either.

Kraeuterbutter has posted on all manner of fast powered bikes/e-motorbikes being allowed on cycle tracks in Austria, so there's clearly much more freedom allowed elsewhere in much maligned Europe, despite their pedelec only rule on our bike types.
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[Miles]

I only know of the announcement of it being legislated for in Germany, virtually a copy of what the Swiss did. I think the insurance requirement is recognition that it is more dangerous for those who get hit, and the accompanying helmet requirement acknowledging that for the rider too.

I suppose there's some sense in not having a driving licence or a tax class since sport bike cyclists ride at 20 mph or more all the time without either.

This is the kind of thing we should be pushing for here. I doubt there'll be much chance of getting modifications to the present pedal-assist directive.

 

[flecc]

This is the kind of thing we should be pushing for here. I doubt there'll be much chance of getting modifications to the present pedal-assist directive.

It would be good, and as I say, technically we are fully entitled to it now. I just don't see our governments legislating for what the public want though, since they seem to think any benefit from laws should only be for what they want with other's thoughts wholly excluded.
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