The white crow cometh

[neptune]

One of my hobbies is research into new energy technology research and development. I find this interesting because cheap energy is one of the few things that will turn around the ailing economies of all the countries in the world. And before I talk about what I want to describe, let us not argue about the law of Conservation of Energy. I knew that law off by heart before its second reading in the House of Lords. Also , remember that experts have been wrong before. Remember DDWFTTW ? This was a vehicle propelled by the wind that could travel directly down wind faster than the wind. Four years after it was demonstrated, confirmed and replicated numerous times, experts are still "proving" that it is impossible.

This guy in Oaklahoma USA, has built a generator, which uses a novel way of using buoyancy. It has been validated and replicated, and in the near future, it is being analysed for the benefit of investors. It is called Hydro Differential Pressure Exchange Overunity System. Look it up on Overunity.com . Of all the emerging energy technologies, this one is likely to be first on the market. This technology will never power vehicles, as the energy density is too low. The most cost effective size will probably be 50 to 100 Kwatts, powering a dozen homes .

Don`t shoot the messenger. Just remember I told you about it first .

Ducks to avoid incoming.

 

[flecc]

Can't look it up on that site without registering, a regular irritant that I won't be blackmailed into.

Like all the others of this ilk, if it's valid it will appear in the rational world, if it's bunkum a conspiracy theory will be invented to account for it not appearing.

 

[neptune]

You can get a quick overview of the tech on the inventors own website.

http://hydroenergyrevolution.com/

For the background, and the independant mathematical proof of overunity, you need to see Overunity.com
Facts about this tech
1It uses no fuel of any kind, except for an initial charge of water at less than 10PSI. After you stop the machine, you can recover this energy.
2 The heart of the machine consists of 2 low tech buoyancy tanks. The inventor calls this "boiler plate technology"
3 The transmission consists of two hydralic rams, pushed by the tank floats, acting as pumps. These charge a hydraulic accumulator. This drives a hydraulic motor which drives a permanent magnet alternator .
4 All the machines internal energy needs are fed from the output of the machine, there is no external energy input. The machine, which is just a pilot model provides about 40 watts to an external load.
5 In the next couple of weeks the machine will undergo a rigorous examination by Internationally renown sceptic Mark Dansie. He did a brief 2 hour examination of it last year, and gave it the thumbs up.

After that the A team of investigators are due to move in. Do not reach a verdict on this before the trial begins.

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the link Neptune, my doubts are based on the following:

1) Multiple stages of energy conversion, each one of necessity entailing energy loss.

2) Gravity is an elevation limited power source where energy extraction is concerned. If used by a static machine it's a single use system, not a sustainable source over time.

3) The link "Our system explained" does nothing of the sort, it's just waffle.

(1) and (2) above mean that it's permanently an energy loss system in a static machine.

P.S. I believe in white crows, they exist.

 

[neptune]

OK flecc. The inventor says that up to four energy conversions are involved , obviously each being less than 100% efficient . He is showing Overunity in spite of this. I must have spent at least 50 hours investigating this. I look forward to Mank Dansie`s report. However I expect you have as much faith in Mark as you do in NASA and MIT. Time will tell of course, and hopefully not too much time.
Incidentally. I would be interested to know if you believe in the reality of DDWFTTW. And flying machines, oops sorry disregard flying machines.

White crows? I expect you can have them any colour you prefer, hair dyes are cheap,
Incidentally, the patent is available on line, but like all patents it is not easy to understand. Overunity.com is a better bet.

 

[flecc]

I also made it four energy conversions, which must have cumulative losses of course.

Albino crows can occur rarely, as albinos do in many species.

A wind driven vehicle can travel faster than the wind driving it, the common misunderstanding being that this means a power gain. It doesn't. It's a speed gain derived from the lower than wind power after the energy conversion loss, the speed gain due to the travelling efficiency of the vehicle.

 

[neptune]

OK flecc.and thanks for that. I am glad that you appreciate DDWFTTW. Unless you studied it, you can not imagine the controversy it caused. A girl student in a top USA university wanted to invite the guy who built the full size machine to give a lecture . This was forbidden by the University on the grounds that it was clearly impossible for the machine to work, That was a year after it had been verified and replicated. So all I am saying is keep an open mind. For those without the time and inclination to study this, I will provide a link to the Mark Dansie report when it becomes available. Incidentally Flecc, you might like Mark. Aparrently he does not believe in Cold Fusion.

 

[flecc]

That's a university that should lose it's grants, if any!

Glad to learn Mark doesn't believe in cold fusion since it shows the possibility of scepticism.

There's a Radio 4 program available on the i-player concerning scepticism in science that might be of interest, here's the link:

Reclaiming the Sceptic

 

[neptune]

I just listened to that program on scepticism, and found it very informative. One particular quote I liked was" Science is always provisional, never done and dusted." Scepticism is a very good thing. It dragged us, or most of us, out of the superstition of the middle ages. But we can have too much of a good thing sometimes. Too much scepticism can close our minds to new possibilities. But we must not be so open minded that our brains fall out. It is a balancing act .
I could be wrong on this, I have been wrong before, and no doubt will be again. The positive thing is that I am willing to examine the evidence as it unfolds. It would be nice to think some of you might join me...
Another quote from the program. The Boss of Ryanair said there was no evidence of danger from volcanic ash. In the words of James Randi "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

 

[Ajax]

You can get a quick overview of the tech on the inventors own website.

HydroEnergy Revolution

For the background, and the independant mathematical proof of overunity, you need to see Overunity.com
Facts about this tech
1It uses no fuel of any kind, except for an initial charge of water at less than 10PSI. After you stop the machine, you can recover this energy.
2 The heart of the machine consists of 2 low tech buoyancy tanks. The inventor calls this "boiler plate technology"
3 The transmission consists of two hydralic rams, pushed by the tank floats, acting as pumps. These charge a hydraulic accumulator. This drives a hydraulic motor which drives a permanent magnet alternator .
4 All the machines internal energy needs are fed from the output of the machine, there is no external energy input. The machine, which is just a pilot model provides about 40 watts to an external load.
5 In the next couple of weeks the machine will undergo a rigorous examination by Internationally renown sceptic Mark Dansie. He did a brief 2 hour examination of it last year, and gave it the thumbs up.

After that the A team of investigators are due to move in. Do not reach a verdict on this before the trial begins.

Is this really a new invention. I recall similar wave-power ventures from back in the early 80's. The concept has already been proven, what we need now is will-power technology.

Wave power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[flecc]

We have two types of wave power stations working at present, the floating chain of booms off the souith west coast which derive leverage power from the changing angles between boom tubes, and the vertical ram type in Scotland. Neither are overunity though, both very inefficient in fact, not that it matters with such an abundant source.

I'm not a fan of wave power since it's merely wind power at one remove after losing much of the original wind power in forming the waves.

 

[GaRRy]

I'm not a fan of wave power since it's merely wind power at one remove after losing much of the original wind power in forming the waves.

True but its one advantage over wind is it never completely stops

 

[flecc]

True but its one advantage over wind is it never completely stops

You clearly aren't a boating man Garry! I've been in millpond conditions at sea on quite a few occasions, though I agree that's not often. However very weak wave formations and minimal swell are common so no site is always ideal.

It's the old problem with renewables of course not always available. Worse still is that the majority of the best wave power sites are around Scotland where we have plenty if other options but where the power isn't needed. Sending it south on the grid loses 7% of the energy on average, much more by the time it reaches the south of England. This adds to the already excessive costs of green energy.

 

[GaRRy]

Cant think of a better use for scotland than the power supply for europe

So cover it in wind turbines
Build loads of dams for hydro
Surround with wave generators
And build a few nuclear plants as fall back

Hmm started as a joke but not such a bad idea

Yea i know about surface water mill ponds but is my understanding that even then there are wave surges going along sea bed due to tidal conditions.

Oh and i do agree that the real cost and damage of these renewable energy resources is not really being looked at fully.

 

[flecc]

Nuclear for Scotland is out now, the SNP in power will not permit any more. Although I'm a fan of nuclear power, given the shambles of our Dounreay experimental fast breeder reactor program I can't say I blame them.

We can't do much more generation on Scotland anyway, any large expansion of generation there would mean a huge expansion of the national grid to send the current south, the costs and environmental implications both unacceptable. It's in the midlands and south where the generation is needed.

 

[neptune]

Hi Ajax. Thanks for the wave power link, very interesting . The technology I am speaking of though is a whole different ball game. It is different, in that it does not have to be deployed in the ocean, or a river or anything like that. All the water involved is contained in two tall tanks. In the demo model, these are about three feet diameter and 6 feet tall. A vast over simplification would be to say that the machine makes its own waves. The machine uses no fuel or energy input. The output can be in the form of electrical power .
The heart of the machine is deceptively simple, each tank has just one moving part. The inventor seems to be an established business man. He tells me that final validation tests on behalf of potential investors will start within two weeks.To understand more, you would need to spend time to study the device . This is , in terms of the future of the human race, FAR more important than the first man on the moon.

 

[flecc]

Most things are far more important than the first man on the moon, but this crackpot idea is not overunity, it cannot work. As I previously remarked, gravity is a single use force in a static machine. Such a device cannot produce anything other than a momentary output, and that only being the partial return of the initial input from an external source.

 

[neptune]

Flecc. May I respectfully request that you study this technology before jumping to a conclusion. Not only will this device provide cheap energy near where it is needed, leading to the redundancy of the national grid, it will change the way we think about entropy and conservative energy fields. This will make the Industrial Revolution seem like a Vicarage Tea Party. Understand the mathematical analysis, and you will experience a Eureka moment.

 

[flecc]

There's no point Neptune, mathematical analysis can prove many impossibilities are possible, it's in the nature of our imperfect mathematics.

This is physically impossible, the physics at this level not being bendable in the way mathematics is.

 

[neptune]

Mathematical analysis is but one proof of this technology. Ironically several engineers on the team who were initially employed to disprove the technology, ended up JOINING THE TEAM. This device complies with every known law of physics apart from the law of Conservation of Energy. You need to study the system, or you can not possibly give an informed opinion as to its validity. At present, you are in the same position as a man knocked down by an aircraft taking off, who did not get out of the way because everyone knows that flying machines are impossible. Flecc, you are known and respected by many, including me, for your wide knowledge. But you can not give an informed opinion on a subject that you have not studied.